Number of electrons in each shell

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the quantum mechanical treatment of electrons in atomic shells, particularly focusing on the implications of the Pauli exclusion principle and the construction of wavefunctions for multiple electrons. Participants explore the theoretical framework presented in Griffith's Introduction to Quantum Mechanics, addressing the number of electrons that can occupy each shell and the nature of their spin and spatial wavefunctions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant explains the Hamiltonian for helium and the separation of the Schrödinger equation, raising questions about the occupancy of states by electrons in light of the Pauli exclusion principle.
  • Another participant asserts that for three spin-1/2 particles, it is impossible to form a singlet state, which is necessary for anti-symmetrization.
  • Discussion includes the construction of anti-symmetric wavefunctions using the Slater determinant method, with a focus on how the symmetry of spin states affects the spatial wavefunction.
  • Participants debate whether the spatial and spin components of the total wavefunction can be factored, with some arguing that they cannot be separated in the general case.
  • One participant presents a specific case involving two electrons in one state and a third in another, demonstrating how to combine these into an antisymmetric function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the implications of spin and spatial wavefunction symmetries, as participants express differing views on the ability to anti-symmetrize wavefunctions for multiple electrons and the role of spin states in this process. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the interplay between spin and spatial wavefunctions, particularly in cases involving multiple electrons. The discussion indicates a need for further clarification on the conditions under which certain configurations are permissible.

epsilonjon
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Hi.

I'm currently working through Griffith's Introduction to QM, and have gotten to the section on the periodic table. I'll explain my understanding a little bit...

Before this he's been looking at the Hamiltonian for helium:

H = \left[ \frac{- \hbar ^2}{2m}\nabla _1 ^2 - \frac{1}{4 \pi \epsilon _0} \frac{2e^2}{r_1} \right] + \left[ \frac{- \hbar ^2}{2m}\nabla _2 ^2 - \frac{1}{4 \pi \epsilon _0} \frac{2e^2}{r_2} \right] + \frac{1}{4 \pi \epsilon _0} \frac{e^2}{|r_1 - r_2|}
As a first attempt, he ignores the electron interaction energy altogether, the Schrödinger equation separates, and solutions can be written as products of hydrogen wavefunctions (only replacing e^2 with 2e^2 in the Bohr radius and energies):

\psi(r_1 , r_2) = \psi_{nlm}(r_1) \psi_{n'l'm'}(r_2)We can construct symmetric and anti-symmetric combinations in the usual way:

\psi(r_1,r_2) = A[\psi_{nlm}(r_1) \psi_{n'l'm'}(r_2) + \psi_{nlm}(r_2) \psi_{n'l'm'}(r_1)]

and

\psi(r_1,r_2) = A[\psi_{nlm}(r_1) \psi_{n'l'm'}(r_2) - \psi_{nlm}(r_2) \psi_{n'l'm'}(r_1)].

We know that electrons are fermions, so the wavefunction has to be anti-symmetric under exchange of particles. However, it is the total wavefunction (position and spin) which must be anti-symmetric, so we can have symmetric spatial wavefunctions as long as they're with anti-symmetric spinors, etc. For example, this means that we can have both electrons in the n=1 state, \psi_0 = \psi_{100}(r_1) \psi_{100}(r_2), so long as this is combined with the anti-symmetric spin configuration (singlet state).

If we now go on to lithium (Z=3), once again ignoring the electron interaction energy, the Schrödinger equation should separate to give

\psi(r_1 , r_2, r_3) = \psi_{nlm}(r_1) \psi_{n'l'm'}(r_2) \psi_{n''l''m''}(r_3)
Now this is the bit I don't understand: Griffiths says that "by the Pauli exclusion principle only two electrons can occupy any given orbital (one with spin up, one with spin down - or more precisely, the singlet configuration). There are n^2 hydrogenic wavefunctions (all with the same energy) for a given n, so the n=1 shell has room for 2 electrons, the n=2 shell holds 8, and in general the nth shell can accommodate 2n^2 electrons."

I understand that each n state has degeneracy n^2 due to the orbital angular momenta, but the rest of that argument does not make much sense to me. For instance, how do we know that we cannot have the 3 electrons each in the n=1 state, \psi_0 = \psi_{100}(r_1) \psi_{100}(r_2) \psi_{100}(r_3), so long as it is combined with an anti-symmetric spinor (as before). Do we not need to work out the possible spin configurations for three spin 1/2 particles before we can even start to work this out? Or am I missing the point entirely?

Thanks for any help! :)
 
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Electrons are spin 1/2 and so there are only 2 basis spin states. You can't anti-symmetrize 3 spin states when there are only 2 basis spin states.

Adding 3 spins together, you cannot get a "singlet" state.
 
Matterwave said:
Electrons are spin 1/2 and so there are only 2 basis spin states. You can't anti-symmetrize 3 spin states when there are only 2 basis spin states.

Adding 3 spins together, you cannot get a "singlet" state.
Ah okay, I think I see that. So for 3 or more particles the spin wavefunction is always symmetric, meaning that (for fermions) the spatial wavefunction has to be anti-symmetric?

Assuming no spin-position-coupling, the total wavefunction is \psi(r_1,r_2,r_3) \chi(s_1,s_2,s_3). But if I use the slater determinant method to construct an anti-symmetric spatial wavefunction for 3 particles in states a, b and c, I get

\psi(r_1,r_2,r_3) = \psi_a(r_1)\psi_b(r_2)\psi_c(r_3) - \psi_a(r_1)\psi_c(r_2)\psi_b(r_3) - \psi_b(r_1)\psi_a(r_2)\psi_c(r_3) + \psi_b(r_1)\psi_c(r_2)\psi_a(r_3) + \psi_c(r_1)\psi_a(r_2)\psi_b(r_3) - \psi_c(r_1)\psi_b(r_2)\psi_a(r_3)

which means that if any two of the states are the same (e.g. 2 particles in the n=1 hydrogenic state), the wavefunction is zero :confused: I think the answer is going to be that they don't cancel because the spins are different, but I don't see how this works when the total wavefunction is \psi(r_1,r_2,r_3) \chi(s_1,s_2,s_3)?

Sorry if I'm making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill in understanding this, I just want to get it clear in my mind.

Thanks :-)
 
Last edited:
epsilonjon said:
So for 3 or more particles the spin wavefunction is always symmetric
... in the exchange of at least 2 particles.

which means that if any two of the states are the same (e.g. 2 particles in the n=1 hydrogenic state), the wavefunction is zero :confused:
You forgot the spin here, and I think in the general case you cannot factor spatial and spin component like that. If any two of the states are the same, the electrons in these states have to have different spin.
 
mfb said:
You forgot the spin here, and I think in the general case you cannot factor spatial and spin component like that. If any two of the states are the same, the electrons in these states have to have different spin.
But then how do you know that the spin state being symmetric under exchange of particles implies the spatial wavefunction is anti-symmetric? I thought this came from the fact that the total wavefunction is \psi(r)\chi(s)?
 
The interesting case here are two electrons in one state (now called G) and one electron in another state (E).

Neglecting prefactors, the two electrons in G can be described as
\psi_G(1)\psi_G(2) \left(\chi_u(1) \chi_d(2) - \chi_u(2) \chi_d(1)\right) := \theta(1,2)
A third electron has its own state and polarisation, here called "u".
\psi_E(3)\chi_u(3)=\Psi(3)
These two can be combined to an antisymmetric function via
\theta(1,2)\Psi(3) - \theta(1,3)\Psi(2) - \theta(3,2)\Psi(1)
While I got this by hand, algorithms should work as well.

To see that this expression is antisymmetric:
An exchange of 1<->3 swaps the first and the last summand (which have opposite sign) and swaps the sign at the middle summand (as theta is antisymmetric).
In a similar way, 1<->2 is fine.
The exchange 1<->2 swaps the sign of the first part. If you swap the order of electrons in the thetas of the other summands, you get a sign swap there as well. This one is a bit tricky to see.

I do not think that you can separate spin and spatial components in this function. Only the combination of both parts make the function antisymmetric.
 
That definitely makes it clearer. Thanks for your help :)
 

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