Number of elementary particles in an atom

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the counting of elementary particles in an atom, specifically focusing on how the numbers of electrons, protons, and neutrons are determined. It touches on theoretical and conceptual aspects of particle classification within atomic structure.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the number of elementary particles in an atom is counted.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on which particles are being counted.
  • A third participant points out that "number of elementary particles" is not a well-defined quantity, especially regarding the nucleus, and discusses the challenges in counting quarks, photons, or gluons.
  • One participant mentions that for hydrogen, which has 1 proton and 1 electron, the counting of these particles is based on established atomic mass and chemical properties.
  • This participant also notes that the equality of protons and electrons is a fundamental aspect of atomic structure.
  • Additionally, they highlight the historical context of how this knowledge has developed over centuries.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and counting of elementary particles, indicating that there is no consensus on what constitutes a well-defined quantity in this context.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the definitions of elementary particles and the assumptions underlying the counting methods, particularly regarding the classification of protons and neutrons as non-elementary.

i.physics
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How Number of elementary particles in an atom are counted?
 
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What particles are you counting?
 
"Number of elementary particles" is not a well-defined quantity, especially for the nucleus.
You can count electrons (elementary), protons and neutrons (not elementary), but trying to count the elementary quarks, photons or gluons doesn't give a meaningful result.
 
Say number of electrons and protons. We have been taught hydrogen has 1 proton and electron each which forms an hydrogen atom. My Q is how these particles numbers were counted?
 
i.physics said:
Say number of electrons and protons. We have been taught hydrogen has 1 proton and electron each which forms an hydrogen atom. My Q is how these particles numbers were counted?

For most of the common stuff:
The mass of the atom tells us the number of neutrons plus the number of protons (google for "atomic mass").
The chemical properties of the atom tell us the number of electrons (google for "periodic table").
We know that the number of protons must be equal to the number of electrons.

That's enough information to determine the number of protons, the number of neutrons, and the number of electrons.

Be aware, however, that it all looks a lot easier in hindsight... We're talking about several centuries of hard work, with each new development built on the previous one, to produce the neat tables that we see today.
 

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