Number of indie vectors ##\leq ## cardinality of spanning set

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a property of finite-dimensional vector spaces, specifically the relationship between the lengths of linearly independent sets of vectors and spanning sets. The original poster attempts to prove that the length of every linearly independent list of vectors is less than or equal to the length of every spanning list.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the original proof's structure, noting potential contradictions and typos. Some suggest assuming a set of linearly independent vectors with a greater length than the spanning set to simplify the proof. Others question the clarity and complexity of the original proof, suggesting a more straightforward approach using fewer variables.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing examination of the proof's logic and structure, with participants providing feedback and suggesting alternative methods. While some contradictions have been identified, there is no explicit consensus on the resolution of the proof's validity.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly indexing the sets of vectors and the implications of assuming a minimal spanning set. The discussion highlights the need for clarity in notation and logical flow in proofs related to linear independence and spanning sets.

Terrell
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Homework Statement


In a finite-dimensional vector space, the length of every linearly independent list of vectors is less than or equal to the length of every spanning list.
It's quite long :nb), hope you guys read through it. Thanks! :smile:

Homework Equations


N/A

The Attempt at a Solution


Let ##\{v_1, \cdots, v_m\}## be linearly independent and ##\{u_1, \cdots, u_m\}## spans V. Note that ##\{v_1, \cdots, v_m\} \subseteq \operatorname{span}(u_1, \cdots, u_n)## which implies ##\forall i=1,\cdots,m## ##v_i=\sum_{j=1}^{n}a_{j}u_{j}##. Suppose that ##n \lt m## and let ##v_1=\sum_{i=1}^{m}a_{i}u_{i}##,##\quad## ##v_2=\sum_{i=1}^{m}b_{i}u_{i}##,##\quad## ##\cdots##, ##\quad## ##v_3=\sum_{i=1}^{m}\eta_{i}u_{i}##. Observe that
\begin{align}
\delta_{1}v_1+\delta_{2}v_2+\cdots +\delta_{n}v_{n}=v_k; \quad k \in \{n+1,\cdots ,m\}\\
\Longleftrightarrow \delta_{1}(\sum_{i=1}^{m}a_{i}u_{i})+\delta_{2}(\sum_{i=1}^{m}b_{i}u_{i})+\cdots +\delta_n(\sum_{i=1}^{m}\eta_{i}u_{i}) &=v_k\\
\Longleftrightarrow \delta_1(a_{1}u_{1}+\cdots +a_{m}u_{m})+\delta_2(b_{1}u_{1}+\cdots +b_{m}u_{m})+\cdots +\delta_n(\eta_{1}u_{1}+\cdots +\eta_{m}u_{m}) &=v_k\\
\Longleftrightarrow (\delta_{1}a_{1}+\cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_{1})u_{1}+\cdots +(\delta_{1}a_{m}+\cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_{m})u_{m} &=v_{k}
\end{align}
Since ##\exists \xi_{i}\in\Bbb{F}## such that ##\xi_{1}u_1+\cdots +\xi_{m}u_m=v_{k}##, then by solving the following system of linear equations
\begin{align}
\delta_{1}a_{1}+\cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_{1} &= \xi_1\\
\vdots\\
\delta_{1}a_{m}+\cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_{m} &= \xi_{m}
\end{align}
we obtain the necessary ##\delta_{i}'s## so that ##\sum_{i=1}^{n}\delta_{i}v_{i}=v_k##. Since ##n \neq m##, there could either be non-unique solutions or no solutions. We consider the two scenarios.
Case 1: infinite solutions; By definition of a basis, ##\{v_1,\cdots ,v_n\}## cannot form a basis due to the required uniqueness of expressing ##v_k## with respect to the set of vectors ##\{v_1,\cdots ,v_n\}##. But ##\operatorname{span}(v_1, \cdots, v_n) \neq V## so it must be that ##\{v_1, \cdots , v_n\}## is not linearly independent. We have a contradiction.
Case 2: No solution; then ##v_k \notin \operatorname{span}(v_1, \cdots, v_n)## which implies ##\delta_{1}v_1 + \delta_{2}v_2 + \cdots + \delta_{n}v_n + \delta_{n+1}v_k = 0## if and only if all ##\delta_{i}'s## equal zero. Equivalently,
\begin{align}
& \Longleftrightarrow (\delta_{1}a_{1}+\cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_{1}+\delta_{n+1}\xi_{1})u_{1}+\cdots +(\delta_{1}a_{m}+\cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_{m}+\delta_{n+1}\xi_{m})u_{m} = 0\\
& \Longleftrightarrow \forall i=1,\cdots, m \quad \delta_{1}a_i+\cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_i+\delta_{n+1}\xi_i =0
\end{align}
But, if we let ##\delta_{n+1}=\frac{-(\delta_{1}a_i+ \cdots +\delta_{n}\eta_i)}{\xi_i}##, ##\forall i=1, \cdots, m##, then ##\exists \delta_i \neq 0## such that ##(\sum_{i=1}^{n}\delta_{i}v_i)+\delta_{n+1}v_k=0##. This implies the set of vectors ##\{v_1, v_2\cdots,v_n, v_k\}## is not linearly independent. We have another contradiction.

##\therefore## ##m \leq n##.o0)
 
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It might be easier to assume that you have a set of m lin. independent vectors and a spanning set with n vectors, with m > n. If you get a contradiction (which should be easier to do than what you did), you're done.

Also, it looks like you have a typo in the first line of your proof. The two sets -- the linearly independent vectors and the spanning set, shouldn't have the same final index of m.
 
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Mark44 said:
it looks like you have a typo in the first line of your proof.
Yes. It should be ##\{u_1,\cdots, u_n\}##
Mark44 said:
It might be easier to assume that you have a set of m lin. independent vectors and a spanning set with n vectors, with m > n.
I believe this is what I did. At line 2, my third sentence starts with suppose ##m \lt n##. Then I got a contradiction in the end. But as what you've probably already notice, my proof seems more complicated than it should be. So I have a feeling that I might have an incorrect use of contradiction. :nb)
 
Terrell said:
Yes. It should be ##\{u_1,\cdots, u_n\}##

I believe this is what I did. At line 2, my third sentence starts with suppose ##m \lt n##.
Actually what you wrote is "Suppose that n < m..." which is correct for a proof by contradiction if your spanning set is ##\{u_1, u_2, \dots, u_n \}##
Terrell said:
Then I got a contradiction in the end. But as what you've probably already notice, my proof seems more complicated than it should be. So I have a feeling that I might have an incorrect use of contradiction. :nb)
Yes, your proof seems more complicated than it needs to be, in part because of the use of lots more letters than are needed.

For example, instead of having coefficients of ##a_i, b_i,## and ##\eta_i##, just use two subscripts. So ##v_i = \sum_{j = 1}^n a_{i~j}u_j##. If you write the equations for ##v_1, v_2, \dots, v_n## in the form of a matrix product, you have ##\vec v = A \vec u##, where A is a matrix with m rows and n columns.I think you can assume without loss of generality that the u vectors are a minimal spanning set; i.e., a basis for the space. Since you need to prove the given statement for every spanning list, it doesn't matter if you prove it for the smallest spanning set.
 
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