News What is the Controversy Surrounding the Obama-Joker Face Meme?

[Helios]

Artist Firas Alkhateeb, a 20-year-old college student from Chicago has created a controversial masterpiece: the Obama-Joker face. The caption "Socialism" was later applied to his picture. The image is becoming ubiquitous at healthcare protest as well as being posted randomly all over the country. Whatever the interpretation is of this work, it is an amusing social phenomenon.

 

[binzing]

Artist Firas Alkhateeb, a 20-year-old college student from Chicago has created a controversial masterpiece: the Obama-Joker face. The caption "Socialism" was later applied to his picture. The image is becoming ubiquitous at healthcare protest as well as being posted randomly all over the country. Whatever the interpretation is of this work, it is an amusing social phenomenon.

Uh..so no link?

 

[Evo]

Apparently not viral. I never heard of it. Never in any mainstream news sources I read all day. Now that I've searched on it.. HOW STUPID.

Obama as The Joker: Racial Fear's Ugly Face
'Political' Poster Turns On Violent Symbolism

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/05/AR2009080503876.html

 

[Ivan Seeking]

An interesting social phenomenon? There is nothing interesting about people who don't even know what they are opposing. Just more nonsense from the Limbaugh/Palin crowd.

Congress is writing the reform plans, not Obama.

 

[chroot]

I've seen it posted all over Berkeley, near the University and down in the Gourmet Ghetto. I got a chuckle out of it, and it's a somewhat topical message. Socialism often goes awry in practice, and our government is closer than it has ever been to true socialism. We should never let our guard down, even during periods of relative trust.

- Warren

 

[Evo]

The kid, Alkhateeb, that did the original says he did it as a tutorial on the use of photoshop and said the picture was stolen off of his flickr site.

 

[chroot]

Just more nonsense from the Limbaugh/Palin crowd.

Your knee-jerk judgments always amaze me, Ivan. The guy who created it is Palestinian, and actually supports and praises Obama.

His message is not right-wing, it is libertarian. I see his point, but I also hold mostly libertarian views.

- Warren

 

[chroot]

And by "created it," I mean the message, by whomever put the word "Socialism" under it. I can accept that Alkhateeb had no political message in mind.

- Warren

 

[rootX]

A Florida teenager could find himself in a sticky situation as a state attorney prepares to review possible felony vandalism charges in connection to the posters depicting President Obama as the Joker, FOXNews.com has learned.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/18/felony-vandalism-charges-mulled-obama-joker-poster-case/

I am not sure if the last posted link referred to this.

 

[russ_watters]

I've seen it posted all over Berkeley, near the University and down in the Gourmet Ghetto. I got a chuckle out of it, and it's a somewhat topical message. Socialism often goes awry in practice, and our government is closer than it has ever been to true socialism. We should never let our guard down, even during periods of relative trust.

- Warren

I'll give you that about socialism, but I don't see how it conveys such a message. I'm not a big fan of Obama or socialism, but I think it's kinda dumb.

 

[russ_watters]

The kid, Alkhateeb, that did the original says he did it as a tutorial on the use of photoshop and said the picture was stolen off of his flickr site.

Now that's ironic!

 

[russ_watters]

Congress is writing the reform plans, not Obama.

Well that's just purposely obtuse, Ivan. Health care reform was a central part of his campaign platform and as President, if Congress is leading the reform plans, that's a failure by Obama to lead. I know you're not naive enough for that, so all I can conclude is you're trying to put some distance between Obama and the current failure of the plan to be popular and pass (so far).

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Apparently not viral. I never heard of it. Never in any mainstream news sources I read all day. Now that I've searched on it.. HOW STUPID.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/05/AR2009080503876.html

I heard about it on the radio a week or two ago when people first started noticing and have seen it several times online since. I don't think many news sources found it very interesting.

An interesting social phenomenon? There is nothing interesting about people who don't even know what they are opposing. Just more nonsense from the Limbaugh/Palin crowd.

Congress is writing the reform plans, not Obama.

I'm not sure that it was orginally a political message at all, I think it was just a picture that someone was posting up for fun. Someone had already done a Bush Joker around the time the movie came out.

 

[billiards]

I've seen it posted all over Berkeley, near the University and down in the Gourmet Ghetto. I got a chuckle out of it, and it's a somewhat topical message. Socialism often goes awry in practice, and our government is closer than it has ever been to true socialism. We should never let our guard down, even during periods of relative trust.

- Warren

Your government is still a million miles from true socialism. Perhaps moving left and coming a little closer to the centre would do your nation more good than harm?

 

[Chi Meson]

This is politics.

Get this crap off of GD. Even mentors here who show great intelligence in matters of science and have shown the capability of understanding nuances of complicated and difficult situations in other matters, are reduced to spouting oversimplified explanations and condemnations fed from opposing wing "opinion sources." It is embarrassing to read.

 

[chroot]

Hmmm... I wonder which of us should feel embarrassed about being different from Chi Meson.

- Warren

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Your knee-jerk judgments always amaze me, Ivan. The guy who created it is Palestinian, and actually supports and praises Obama.

His message is not right-wing, it is libertarian. I see his point, but I also hold mostly libertarian views.

- Warren

I'm talking about the way it is used; talking about knee-jerk reactions. This was even referenced specifically in the op. Who made it or why really doesn't matter. Watch any anti-Obama gig and you'll see this and Hitler-Obama. If feeds right into the Palin/Limbaugh crowd.

I also don't appreciate his defacing of our President. No matter his intentions, it is disrespecful and probably a cheap ploy for attention.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is politics.

Get this crap off of GD. Even mentors here who show great intelligence in matters of science and have shown the capability of understanding nuances of complicated and difficult situations in other matters, are reduced to spouting oversimplified explanations and condemnations fed from opposing wing "opinion sources." It is embarrassing to read.

If you read the posting guidelines, which was written by the staff, you would see that this thread really does not meet the requirements for a thread in politics. Also, personal opinions are allowed in GD. I'm sorry if you don't approve of that.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I saw the picture but I just didn't get it. Maybe because I didn't see the Batman movie.

 

[Evo]

If you read the posting guidelines, which was written by the staff, you would see that this thread really does not meet the requirements for a thread in politics. Also, personal opinions are allowed in GD. I'm sorry if you don't approve of that.

Actually, the political comments after the OP does make it more suitable for discussion in P&WA.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I saw the picture but I just didn't get it. Maybe because I didn't see the Batman movie.

I've seen it and still don't really get it either. The only thing I can conjure is that maybe they are trying to use to depict him as the bogey man.

I also don't appreciate his defacing of our President. No matter his intentions, it is disrespecful and probably a cheap ploy for attention.

Did you care when it was Bush?

 

[WhoWee]

What's the difference between this nonsense and the Obama sneakers and basketballs being sold on 30 second cable spots? It's all disgraceful.

 

[WhoWee]

Obama sneakers
http://images.google.com/images?q=o...&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Did you care when it was Bush?

No so much because he betrayed the country by trashing the Constitution; or at least he did implicitly by allowing others to do so. He earned and deserved disrespect. But I would still never support something like this directed at any President.

 

[noblegas]

I also don't appreciate his defacing of our President. No matter his intentions, it is disrespecful and probably a cheap ploy for attention.

Since when did it become socially unacceptable to "deface" the president? His face was not disfigured, it was just painted to look like the Joker's face; It is and has always been an american tradition to draw exaggerated caricatures of politicians and this tradition will continued with obama in office;

 

[russ_watters]

No so much because he betrayed the country by trashing the Constitution; or at least he did implicitly by allowing others to do so. He earned and deserved disrespect. But I would still never support something like this directed at any President.

So basically, when you (Ivan) have a negative opinion about someone, it is ok if anyone insults them but when you (Ivan) have a positive opinion about someone it is not ok for people to insult them?

Do you see any logical or constitutional problems with that position, Ivan...?

1. Unless you're God (or even a judge), you're not the arbiter of good or bad.
2. That doesn't jive with the concept of free speech.

In any case, I'm glad you acknowledged the double standard - saves me the trouble of digging up year-old quotes from you insulting Bush!

Also, just so we're clear:

I also don't appreciate his defacing of our President.

"our President" is generic, but really what you mean is 'a president I like', right? Or can this just be covered by saying things like that Bush wasn't your president?

But I would still never support something like this directed at any President.

Now I'm confused - you wouldn't support it against any president, but it was ok against Bush...?

 

[russ_watters]

...Now might also be a good time to point out that politicians (president, mayor, whatever) are not covered by slander/libel law. That's a pretty critical part of freedom of speech.

 

[WhoWee]

No so much because he betrayed the country by trashing the Constitution; or at least he did implicitly by allowing others to do so. He earned and deserved disrespect. But I would still never support something like this directed at any President.

In the context of the Constitution, does the creation of SO MANY additional CZARs concern you. People who answer only to Obama, and not approved/reviewed by Congress. Please don't name Bush CZARs, Obama has taken it to a whole new level.

Do you think the "Shadow Government" label is fair?

 

[OmCheeto]

It could have been worse:

 

[kyleb]

The guy who created it is Palestinian, and actually supports and praises Obama.

In regard to the latter part of your statement, I've seen http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-joker-artist.html" :

"After Obama was elected, you had all of these people who basically saw him as the second coming of Christ," Alkhateeb said. "From my perspective, there wasn't much substance to him."
"I abstained from voting in November," he wrote in an e-mail. "Living in Illinois, my vote means close to nothing as there was no chance Obama would not win the state." If he had to choose a politician to support, Alkhateeb said, it would be Ohio Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich.

So I am curious, how did you come to your conclusion?

So basically, when you (Ivan) have a negative opinion about someone, it is ok if anyone insults them but when you (Ivan) have a positive opinion about someone it is not ok for people to insult them?

No. Basically; Ivan considers defacing the image of any President "disrespecful and probably a cheap ploy for attention", though it doesn't consern him as much in the case of one who "betrayed the country by trashing the Constitution".

 

[Cyrus]

It could have been worse:

Yessssssss. I like turtles!

 

[OmCheeto]

In regard to the latter part of your statement, I've seen http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-joker-artist.html" :

Interesting story.

Regardless, Alkhateeb does agree with the Obama "Hope" artist about "socialism" being the wrong caption for the Joker image. "It really doesn't make any sense to me at all," he said. "To accuse him of being a socialist is really ... immature.

Alkhateeb claims that the artist, Shepard Fairey, who "socialized" his image, to have done a caricature of Bush also.

I think this is it:

Yessssssss. I like turtles!

I really think that kid needs a lawyer and should start suing everyone for royalties...

 

[kyleb]

The artist claims to have done a caricature of Bush also.

I get the impression you are confused here. To clarify; Shepard Fairey made the Bush-vampire caricature, and commented on the Obama-Joker-socialism caricature of which Firas Alkhateeb made the Obama-Joker image but had no part in the "socialism" branding.

 

[noblegas]

I don't understand why he is drawn like the joker from the dark knight; Joker wanted anarchy;

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I don't understand why he is drawn like the joker from the dark knight; Joker wanted anarchy;

So here's the deal. The collective "Anonymous" has been making silly pics of Joker ("why so serious") for quite a while now. Also since they like to troll people by emulating stormfront racists they have been making a lot of fun of Obama with altered pics of him and his campaign slogans and logos, mostly referencing socialism. Since anon mostly hang out on image boards they are often looking for new funny/interesting/offensive pics to share. The artist of this image says it was taken off his flickr account. So what I am figuring, and others have been figuring, is that some anon found the pic and posted copies all over the place as a joke. Most likely after it first hit and got so much attention other anon decided to make their own copies and post them all over.

"Anonymous" is known for trolling and raiding with the ultimate success being that it gets in the news. They are responsible for the Rick Roll, Rick Astley being voted Mtv's Best Act Ever, at least one major protest of the church of scientology involving several persons showing up wearing Guy Fawkes masks, one or two major floods of pornography on YouTube, and many other random events involving several individuals that don't really know each other banding together to **** with people's heads. The most current raid I am aware of is an attempt to get some strange fake event reported on Fox News.

So it it very likely "Anonymous" that started this just for fun though no one can really know for sure.

Edit: Also, considering the original artists inclination to depict Obama in this fashion I am thinking he is likely anon himself.

 

[OmCheeto]

I get the impression you are confused here. To clarify; Shepard Fairey made the Bush-vampire caricature, and commented on the Obama-Joker-socialism caricature of which Firas Alkhateeb made the Obama-Joker image but had no part in the "socialism" branding.

You are correct. I've fixed the post to reflect that. Thank you.

 

[kyleb]

Not a problem OmCheeto, I am always glad to be of help.

Also, considering the original artists inclination to depict Obama in this fashion I am thinking he is likely anon himself.

I figure it is far more likely that Alkhateeb, being of Palestinian descent, was making a symbolic commentary on Obama's transformation from being a strong supporter of Palestinian rights to schmoozing with AIPAC upon making his bid for the presidency. Also, based on the the contents of http://www.flickr.com/photos/khateeb88/" , it seems highly likely he is Muslim, which is hardly compatible with the mentality of Anonymous.

As for speculation of later Anonymous involvement with the image, I generally don't follow their workings, but I took the time to dig around a bit to check and I find the connection tenuous at best. Considering their Joker fetish, I would not be surprised if it were one of their horde who edited the original image into the "why so socialist?" forms one can find elsewhere. However, I have yet to find anything to suggest Anonymous has any particular beef with Obama or socialism, let alone a compulsion to brand Obama as a socialist aside from in jest, so I doubt they have any responsibility for the "socialism" from which has been plastered around more recently. That version is surely the product of the wingnuts who have convinced themselves that Obama's policies are all part of some grand conspiracy to destroy the US, as that is clearly the message it attempts to covey.

 

[OmCheeto]

Not a problem OmCheeto, I am always glad to be of help.


I figure it is far more likely that Alkhateeb, being of Palestinian descent, was making a symbolic commentary on Obama's transformation from being a strong supporter of Palestinian rights to schmoozing with AIPAC upon making his bid for the presidency. Also, based on the the contents of http://www.flickr.com/photos/khateeb88/" , it seems highly likely he is Muslim, which is hardly compatible with the mentality of Anonymous.

And he doesn't like Rahm Emanuel either.

President-elect Obama has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff.

EPIC FAIL.

Emanuel is a fervent anti-Islam voice in Washington. A Zionist, he takes a hard line stance against the Palestinian cause, and shows a clear anti-Muslim racism.

Besides that, he is the embodiment of "political partisanship" that Obama was supposedly going to change!

I guess we can only blame ourselves. He said "change" we just never bothered asking if he meant good change or bad. Looks like things are not going to get any better or different in Washington.

Change we shouldn't have believed in.

Note: I am neither Democrat nor Republican, Conservative nor Liberal, didn't support Obama or McCain.

I just call it like I see it.

This seems to make sense now. It was the appointment of Emanuel the prompted Alkhateeb to envision Obama as a Joker. In my few conversations with people from the middle east regarding the presence of so many terrorists in their midst, they invariably referred to them as "Jokers". I always thought that was an odd choice of words.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

This seems to make sense now. It was the appointment of Emanuel the prompted Alkhateeb to envision Obama as a Joker. In my few conversations with people from the middle east regarding the presence of so many terrorists in their midst, they invariably referred to them as "Jokers". I always thought that was an odd choice of words.

Ah, now that's interesting.

I figure it is far more likely that Alkhateeb, being of Palestinian descent, was making a symbolic commentary on Obama's transformation from being a strong supporter of Palestinian rights to schmoozing with AIPAC upon making his bid for the presidency. Also, based on the the contents of Alkhateeb's flicker account, it seems highly likely he is Muslim, which is hardly compatible with the mentality of Anonymous.

As for speculation of later Anonymous involvement with the image, I generally don't follow their workings, but I took the time to dig around a bit to check and I find the connection tenuous at best. Considering their Joker fetish, I would not be surprised if it were one of their horde who edited the original image into the "why so socialist?" forms one can find elsewhere. However, I have yet to find anything to suggest Anonymous has any particular beef with Obama or socialism, let alone a compulsion to brand Obama as a socialist aside from in jest, so I doubt they have any responsibility for the "socialism" from which has been plastered around more recently. That version is surely the product of the wingnuts who have convinced themselves that Obama's policies are all part of some grand conspiracy to destroy the US, as that is clearly the message it attempts to covey.

OmCheeto's post starts to make some sense of why Al Khateeb may have made this particular representation. I have no reason to believe that a muslim would not participate in forums where anon congregate though. I obviously do so myself and I have seen plenty of people jump into the random flame wars regarding the middle east who claim to be muslim. No way to tell if they are sincere of course but there is really no reason to doubt that at least some muslims would lurk and/or participate. I may have stated it more boldly in my earlier post but I am only speculating that he may be anon.

I still don't see rightwing nutbags google scrounging for random images though. And by "Anonymous" I mean the collective form as opposed to the underground 'hacker' subculture. I'm still fairly certain it was one of them. I am pretty sure that all though most anon are just playing that at least a few really are anti-Obama, particularly the hardcore libertarians.

While chances of connecting this to anon may be slim I find the idea that it was one of the Rush/Palin crowd to be far slimmer. I think someone somewhere is sitting back enjoying their handiwork and of the random various people who have claimed ownership of the meme there's just no way to tell.

 

[OmCheeto]

Ah, now that's interesting.


OmCheeto's post starts to make some sense of why Al Khateeb may have made this particular representation. I have no reason to believe that a muslim would not participate in forums where anon congregate though. I obviously do so myself and I have seen plenty of people jump into the random flame wars regarding the middle east who claim to be muslim. No way to tell if they are sincere of course but there is really no reason to doubt that at least some muslims would lurk and/or participate. I may have stated it more boldly in my earlier post but I am only speculating that he may be anon.

I still don't see rightwing nutbags google scrounging for random images though. And by "Anonymous" I mean the collective form as opposed to the underground 'hacker' subculture. I'm still fairly certain it was one of them. I am pretty sure that all though most anon are just playing that at least a few really are anti-Obama, particularly the hardcore libertarians.

While chances of connecting this to anon may be slim I find the idea that it was one of the Rush/Palin crowd to be far slimmer. I think someone somewhere is sitting back enjoying their handiwork and of the random various people who have claimed ownership of the meme there's just no way to tell.

I think it's merely someone's desire to have their 15 minutes of fame, at the cost of others, with no concern to the consequences.

And as Barney Frank said the other day in similar context; "it is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated".

 

[WhoWee]

I think it's merely someone's desire to have their 15 minutes of fame, at the cost of others, with no concern to the consequences.

And as Barney Frank said the other day in similar context; "it is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated".

Perhaps he was talking about his claims that Fannie/Freddie were sound - just before the collapse?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

So basically, when you (Ivan) have a negative opinion about someone, it is ok if anyone insults them but when you (Ivan) have a positive opinion about someone it is not ok for people to insult them?
Do you see any logical or constitutional problems with that position, Ivan...?

1. Unless you're God (or even a judge), you're not the arbiter of good or bad.
2. That doesn't jive with the concept of free speech.

In any case, I'm glad you acknowledged the double standard - saves me the trouble of digging up year-old quotes from you insulting Bush!

Also, just so we're clear: "our President" is generic, but really what you mean is 'a president I like', right? Or can this just be covered by saying things like that Bush wasn't your president? Now I'm confused - you wouldn't support it against any president, but it was ok against Bush...?

Oh give me a break. It is not a matter of opinion whether the President is OBLIGATED to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution - that is his primary job. What you fail to understand is the difference between opinions, and betrayal that may have risen to the level of treason. The ONLY reason we aren't going after these guys is that they left such a mess in the wake of their abuses that it determined to be in the best interest of the nation not to pursue the matter of treason; a decision that I do not agree with.

People swear to defend the Constitution with their life EVERY DAY. It is too bad that so many fail to understand the significance of this fact. When Bush betrayed the nation, he in effect forfeited his right to power. We simply didn't enforce the law.

I would like to see him, and esp Cheney, tried for war crimes, and crimes against the nation. This is not a political issue. This is a criminal issue. But it seems that the right wing has blinded people to this fact.

For those who think this is some kind of liberal issue, my dedication to the Constitution comes from true Conservatim; not the faux neocrap that you buy into and peddled today as conservatism.

 

[Flat]

While chances of connecting this to anon may be slim I find the idea that it was one of the Rush/Palin crowd to be far slimmer. I think someone somewhere is sitting back enjoying their handiwork and of the random various people who have claimed ownership of the meme there's just no way to tell.

Some anons did do this, or atleast something similiar. About a month ago a few posted that they were hanging up the socialism and were trying to get others to do the same. However, I didn't think that it really caught on.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I think it's merely someone's desire to have their 15 minutes of fame, at the cost of others, with no concern to the consequences.

And as Barney Frank said the other day in similar context; "it is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated".

As to the consequences I think most people find it funny or ridiculous. There are a bunch of rightwing nutjobs parading around with such pictures and I think most people are wondering how these people can be for real. Getting people to do this is often the deeper point behind the work of "Anonymous" (if it really is) when there is one. It highlights the absurdity of the people who latch onto it.

Some anons did do this, or atleast something similiar. About a month ago a few posted that they were hanging up the socialism and were trying to get others to do the same. However, I didn't think that it really caught on.

I am sure that some people have tried to propagate it. When I first heard about this on the radio I checked into see what was being said about it and saw at least a couple of people taking credit. The teens in Florida certainly fit the demographic though some at least have referred to some conservative talk radio host who was urging people to post more of these.

 

[WhoWee]

For those who think this is some kind of liberal issue, my dedication to the Constitution comes from true Conservatim; not the faux neocrap that you buy into and peddled today as conservatism.

I admire your passion and (as Turbo once explained to me) I know you are a real Conservative. But I'm going to pose the question again, are you concerned about all of Obama's new Czars?

 

[OmCheeto]

As to the consequences I think most people find it funny or ridiculous. There are a bunch of rightwing nutjobs parading around with such pictures and I think most people are wondering how these people can be for real. Getting people to do this is often the deeper point behind the work of "Anonymous" (if it really is) when there is one. It highlights the absurdity of the people who latch onto it.

Well, seeing the swatika exposed on my mothers neckerchief on a photograph when she was 16 only told me that anyone can be led to believe anything when they are young. We really don't need a bunch of rightwing or leftwing nutjobs spewing lies and discontent, to an end that can only lead us to fingerpointing and infighting. I truly hope that you are correct, that people find it funny and ridiculous. But I've been getting feedback to the contrary, from young and old alike, that people are believing this garbage.

It only takes one Timothy McVeigh to kill 168 people. Just imagine if there were thousands of people like him.

The opinions, mixed with lies, sprinkled with truth here and there to make the whole cake look believable, needs to stop.

 

[OmCheeto]

Perhaps he was talking about his claims that Fannie/Freddie were sound - just before the collapse?

Almost, but not quite a good a comeback as http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_081909/content/01125106.guest.html" to Frank's "On what planet do you spend most of your time"?

Isn't it an established fact that Barney Frank himself spends most of his time living around Uranus?

huh.. huuhhhhuhuhu... stupid gay dog...

 

[OmCheeto]

Of course, these people can realize their dream of living in a no-taxes, no-government, guns-for-all society simply by moving to Somalia

badda bump.

source:
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2009/08/200982075754210254.html"

 

[WhoWee]

Almost, but not quite a good a comeback as http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_081909/content/01125106.guest.html" to Frank's "On what planet do you spend most of your time"?


huh.. huuhhhhuhuhu... stupid gay dog...

Rush was just mean (or something?) - I was trying to invoke an ironic comparison.

 

[lisab]

badda bump.

source:
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2009/08/200982075754210254.html"

Ahahaha...he stole my line! Only I usually use random third-world countries that the person with whom I'm debating has never heard of. Better yet I'll make one up (Zurzickstan or something), just for my own amusement.