"Old" books are in public domain, what about old textbooks?

[fluidistic]

I'm quickly reading at https://boingboing.net/2019/08/01/8...Ldf_i5muga3g_m0NVkMQ5u6NiE-f_FapGKftJO76_hxbw that about 80% of books published in the US between 1924 and 1963 are in the Public Domain now.
Textbooks are known to be very expensive, even when they are "old" and their authors are dead since decades. I am wondering if most of them have reached the Public Domain? For example, what about the Landau and Lifschitz series? Their first edition was published during that period. Wikipedia gives links to the archive website containing copies of these textbooks for free. I had been told here in the past that it broke copyrights, but now that I read the title of the article I linked above, I am in doubts. It looks like they have reached the public domain?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Your argument is that because 80% of the books from a given period are in the public domain any individual book from that period is? I don't think that's how things work.

More tg the point, the books themselves say that they are copyrighted. (1969 in one case I could check) Are you saying the books are wrong?

As far as Wikipedia as a source, if you actually followed the reference you'd have learned the material was taken down.

 

[fluidistic]

Your argument is that because 80% of the books from a given period are in the public domain any individual book from that period is? I don't think that's how things work.

As you point out, I meant 80%, not all, as the title of the thread suggests.

More tg the point, the books themselves say that they are copyrighted. (1969 in one case I could check) Are you saying the books are wrong?

As far as Wikipedia as a source, if you actually followed the reference you'd have learned the material was taken down.

In the given link, it is stated

But there's another source of public domain works: until the 1976 Copyright Act, US works were not copyrighted unless they were registered, and then they quickly became public domain unless that registration was renewed. The problem has been to figure out which of these works were in the public domain, because the US Copyright Office's records were not organized in a way that made it possible to easily cross-check a work with its registration and renewal.

Emphasis mine. It looks like the copyrights have to be constantly renewed? Or am I understanding this wrong?

Ok about L&L's archive's textbooks. Maybe they were the latest edition which has a still valid copyright? In any case my question stands for textbooks in general (for example that one https://archive.org/details/thermoelectricth00harm/page/n19/mode/2up can be borrowed for 1 hour at a time (and I think this makes it unavailable to anyone else)). How can I check whether it is now in the public domain?

 

[Vanadium 50]

It looks like the copyrights have to be constantly renewed?

Publishers have whole departments that do this. Circumstances vary depending on the book. For instance, these books are translations, which complicates things. It used to be that copyrights had to be renewed every 28 years.

Ok about L&L's archive's textbooks... How can I check whether it is now in the public domain?

They are not. First, we can tell they are because someone took them down. Second, the term is 95 years for post-1963 books. The L&L translations are from, in my case, 1969. So they will be under copyright until the 2050's.

 

[fluidistic]

Publishers have whole departments that do this. Circumstances vary depending on the book. For instance, these books are translations, which complicates things. It used to be that copyrights had to be renewed every 28 years.

The point of the journalistic article is that only 20% of pre-1963 books had their copyrights renewed.

They are not. First, we can tell they are because someone took them down. Second, the term is 95 years for post-1963 books. TGhe L&L translations are from, in my case, 1969. So they will be under copyright until the 2050's.

Sure, these were the post 1963 edition, but there are L&L translations from 1960 and even older ones. For instance that textbook: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006AWV88/?tag=pfamazon01-20, or that one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007G5B42/?tag=pfamazon01-20.
Are these old edition copyrights superseded by the latest edition ones? If not, does that mean that these old editions could potentially be in the public domain (that was essentially my question in the previous post).
And what about other textbooks, like the one by Harman and Konig I gave the link to? How can one check, in general, whether the copyright has expired?

 

[Vanadium 50]

How can one check, in general, whether the copyright has expired?

You need a lawyer who can research the exact circumstances.

However, the fact that the copyright owners have been successful in having infringing work taken down is a pretty strong argument. Also note that 1960 + 95 > 2020, so we would expect L&L to still be under copyright. The fact that 20% of some other books have entered the public domain is not relevant.

 

[fluidistic]

You need a lawyer who can research the exact circumstances.

Thank you, I didn't know this.

However, the fact that the copyright owners have been successful in having infringing work taken down is a pretty strong argument. Also note that 1960 + 95 > 2020, so we would expect L&L to still be under copyright. The fact that 20% of some other books have entered the public domain is not relevant.

You wrote that pre-1963 it used to be 28 years validity, so that would make 1960 + 28 < 2020, no? At least for the 1st edition. The versions that were taken down on archive (note that not all of the books were taken down, so it isn't a perfect indicator either) were very likely post 1963 ones.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If you want to believe that there is some older version of L&L out there that did not have its copyright correctly renewed, I can't stop you. But you have no evidence in favor, and plenty of evidence against.

 

[fluidistic]

If you want to believe that there is some older version of L&L out there that did not have its copyright correctly renewed, I can't stop you. But you have no evidence in favor, and plenty of evidence against.

Alright, I have just downloaded the 11.7 MB file provided by Stanford Librairies (https://exhibits.stanford.edu/copyrightrenewals), containg a list of all Public Domains books.
Sure enough the 1960 edition of L&L's "Electrodynamics of continuous media" is on the list. I do not know why the other pre-1963 volumes aren't on that list, my guess is that it's an incomplete list, now, more than an exhaustive one.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Actually, that database indicates the copyright was renewed on May 9, 1988.

 

[fluidistic]

Actually, that database indicates the copyright was renewed on May 9, 1988.

Ah I see. And I see this is a list of books that got their copyrights renewed. The fact that the other L&L books don't appear in the list may mean that they didn't get any renewal, although it would be strange that the vol 6 (or whichever) has been renewed while the other ones haven't.

 

[Vanadium 50]

The fact that the other L&L books don't appear in the list may mean that they didn't get any renewal

I don't believe this is a valid conclusion. It assumes the database in question is complete, which even the creators don't claim.

 

[fluidistic]

I don't believe this is a valid conclusion. It assumes the database in question is complete, which even the creators don't claim.

I think you are right. It would make sense.
Anyway the answer to my original question is that one must probably pay for a lawyer to check out any particular title, there is no full, errorless database publicly available.

 

[fresh_42]

The usual publishers of textbooks (Springer, Addison-Wesley, Cambridge University Press, etc.) are on the market since long. I assume they will renew their copyrights unless the book is really out of date. This might happen if the books are older than those 95 years, but then they are of little interest anyway. The chances to find a modern book about a subject on one of the thousands of university servers, which is publically available, because a scientist decided to make them public, are much higher. If you print out such a pdf and let it bind you will be still cheaper than buying an old one.

I have some really old books, physics as well as mathematics, but I don't want to read them nowadays. To much of language, didactic approach and even content has changed meanwhile.