One capacitor charging another capacitor

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    Capacitor Charging
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the scenario of one capacitor (C1) charging another capacitor (C2) and the resulting voltage on C2. Participants explore the implications of ideal conditions, energy conservation, and the behavior of capacitors in such a system, raising questions about theoretical versus practical outcomes.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the voltage on C2 to be 8V based on charge conservation principles, but expresses confusion regarding energy calculations that do not add up.
  • Another participant suggests interpreting the capacitors as being in parallel to find the voltage on C2, while also discussing the nature of energy loss during charge redistribution.
  • Some participants argue that in an ideal scenario with no resistance, the charge would oscillate indefinitely between the capacitors, making it impossible to define a static voltage on C2.
  • Concerns are raised about energy losses due to finite resistance in real-world scenarios, with references to ESR and dielectric losses.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of assuming zero resistance and the resulting theoretical challenges, including the concept of energy oscillation and overshoot in charge redistribution.
  • Participants debate whether it is valid to ignore electromagnetic radiation as a loss mechanism in theoretical discussions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the original question and the assumptions made regarding ideal conditions. There is no consensus on how to approach the problem, with multiple competing perspectives on energy conservation and the behavior of capacitors.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the assumptions made about ideal components, noting that real-world factors such as resistance and inductance cannot be entirely disregarded. The discussion reflects the complexities involved in analyzing capacitor behavior under varying conditions.

  • #31
NascentOxygen said:
Alas... I stayed on to give you the benefit of the doubt, in case you had something insightful to say.

I am absolutely dumbfounded that you do not find my conclusion above fascinating.

I suppose we live in an age where everyone wants a soundbite, spoon fed to them.

The conclusion, that it doesn't matter how the energy is lost, it is the same amount of energy, is fascinating. In fact, I suppose it is a form of 'Gibbs free energy' type calculation, in which we look at the 'before' and 'after' state and recongise that both are defined, so the route to the end-point is immaterial.

The example given above with the spring is similarly so. Imagine you drop a mass on a spring, through lossy fluids, magnetic fields, whathaveyou that might impede its decent, yet at the end, once equilibrium is achieved, exactly the same amount of potential energy would have been expended.

I think that is fascinating. You don't? Time for you to move on to graze for your next sound-bite...
 
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  • #32
I would like to go right back to your first post and do what I think the question is asking.
I am going to assume that when C1 is connected to C2 they are in parallel... that is a sensible way to use one capacitor to put charge on another.
First of all C1 is 1μF charged to 10V so energy stored is 0.5 x 1 x 10^-6 x 10^2
This gives 5.0 x 10^-5J
also the charge on C1 = C x V = 1 x 10^-6 x 10 = 1 x 10^-5 C
When C1 is connected (in parallel) to C2 the combined capacitance = C1 + C2 = 1.25x10^-6 F
The charge in the combination remains the same (1x10^-5C)
therefore the Voltage across this parallel combination is V =Q/C = 1x10^-5/1.25x 10^-6 = 8V
The energy stored on the combination is 0.5xCxV^2 = 0.5 x 1.25x10^6 x 8^2 = 4 x 10^-5J
So there has been an energy loss of 5x10^-5J - 4x10^-5J = 1x10^-5J
In an earlier post I explained how energy is lost when charge flows on to or from a capacitor.
Resistance of any connecting wire, sparking at the switch and in the last resort electromagnetic radiation (probably radio waves).
This radiation can be detected on a radio in the vicinity, it can be shown on an oscilloscope with a pickup coil of a few hundred turns connected to the input of the CRO
 

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