Opossing acceleration forces from the same mass, unbalanced?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of opposing acceleration forces acting on the same mass, particularly in the context of a personal experience with moving on a skateboard or wheeled chair. Participants explore the implications of conservation of momentum, friction types, and the effects of varying acceleration rates over time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant theorizes that a short, high acceleration in one direction balanced by a long, low acceleration in the opposite direction could create a net imbalance, questioning how this relates to conservation of momentum.
  • Another participant explains the role of static versus kinetic friction in initiating movement, suggesting that a force must exceed static friction to move an object.
  • A thought experiment is proposed involving a box on a frictionless surface to illustrate conservation of momentum, comparing the effects of throwing a bouncy ball versus a blob of goo.
  • One participant expresses realization about the importance of static friction in understanding the initial question, indicating a moment of clarity after discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the significance of static friction in the context of the discussion, but the broader implications of the original question regarding net forces and acceleration remain unresolved, with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on complex interactions between forces, friction types, and conservation principles, with some assumptions about ideal conditions (e.g., frictionless surfaces) that may not hold in practical scenarios.

BleedingRain
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Okay, so this is either really complicated, or really simple. I had this theory about something, that I've never been able to fully test. As a kid, I used to love to sit on a skateboard or a wheeled computer chair and lean to one side, then quickly slide my feet (and the board/chair) underneath me to the other side, then repeat again and again, to move across the floor without touching anything.

Now, I had a thought recently that perhaps this is a trick on conservation of momentum, which allows an object to create an imbalanced force, and therefore move, using only sources of momentum within its own mass, via a clever manipulation of inertia. However, I couldn't be sure if air friction had anything to do with it or even the rolling friction from the wheels, or well... any kind of friction. I'd basically need to go to space to confirm that theory, so I thought I'd ask some physicists, or at least someone keen on the general concepts of physics like myself.

Basically, here's the question. If you had a short, high acceleration in one direction, balanced by a long, low acceleration in the other direction, both acting on the same mass, would they cancel each other out, or create a net imbalance? I know that F=MA, but I don't know how that translates to acceleration over varying lengths of time versus varying acceleration rates. any physics majors/geniuses out there who can help me out? This is purely for curiosity reasons.
 
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Welcome to PF;
This is a common question and it is to do with the difference between kinetic and static friction - basically the static friction is higher.

To make a chair, say, move, you need to provide a force bigger than the friction.
If you throw yourself about quickly, this is what you are doing: the peak force delivered to the chair is greater than the static friction, but if you move slowly it isn't.

The details get a bit more sloppy ... try this:

You are in a box sitting on a frictionless surface - you are at one end and you have a ball . You throw the ball at the far wall, where it bounces back and you catch it.
What is the motion of the box wrt the ground?

Now repeat the though experiment, but this time, instead of a bouncy ball you have a blob of goo. When it hits the far wall it sticks. Now what happens.

(these are conservation of momentum problems)

Once you've figured that out - you can add friction.
For that you need to know about specific impulse: the longer the acceleraton period, the lower the peak force.
Hitting the far wall is a very short acceleration. Throwing the ball is a long acceleration in comparison.
 
Actually once you mentioned static friction I got it. The description sort of got confusing, and I had to read it a few times to understand what you were trying to say, but static friction totally makes sense. How could I have missed that? It was so simple. I knew it. Much Thanks.
 
Yah - it's one of those things you can get intuitively quite quickly but the details are a bit messier than your intuition.
Well done.
 

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