Optimizing Mosfet Amplifier Problem Solution with Kirchhoff's Law and KVL

  • Thread starter Thread starter DragonChase29
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Amplifier Mosfet
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a problem related to optimizing a MOSFET amplifier using Kirchhoff's Law and Kirchhoff's Voltage Law (KVL). Participants explore the DC bias current, the application of large signal analysis, and the implications of various circuit parameters on the amplifier's performance. The conversation includes attempts at calculations, clarifications on circuit behavior, and considerations for AC load lines.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using large signal analysis to find the DC bias current and treats capacitors as open circuits.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that the gate voltage can be zero if there is no current through a resistor, prompting a reevaluation of the gate voltage.
  • A later reply clarifies that if the current through the resistor is zero, the gate voltage must equal the drain voltage.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the calculated gate-source voltage (Vgs) and its effect on the active region of the MOSFET.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the values of capacitors needed for part B of the problem, with suggestions to assume high values for simplification.
  • Some participants express confusion about how to determine when the output signal clips and seek clarification on the method for analyzing the circuit's response.
  • One participant suggests graphing Id versus Vg to analyze the circuit behavior and mentions the potential issues with assuming infinite capacitance for the capacitors.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the appropriateness of using load lines in this nonlinear circuit context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on several aspects, including the correct approach to analyzing the circuit for part B, the use of load lines, and the assumptions regarding capacitor values. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include missing assumptions about capacitor values, the dependence on the operating frequency, and unresolved steps in the mathematical analysis of the circuit's behavior.

DragonChase29

Homework Statement


upload_2017-9-9_11-50-24.png
[/B]

Homework Equations


  • K=0.5μnCox(W/L)
  • ID=K×(Vgs-Vt)2
  • Kirchhoff's voltage Law

The Attempt at a Solution


For part A,

My initial assumption was that since we are trying to find the DC bias current(to help find K), we would use the large signal, where capacitors are treated as open circuits. The new equivalent circuit is:
upload_2017-9-9_12-10-19.png


Then, I thought it would be a simple KVL problem because the is no current at the gate, such that,
Ir3=0.
Thus,
(4k+2k)Id+4-10=0
and Id=1mA.

Again, since Ir3=0, that means Vgate=0 and Vgs=Vgate-Vsource=0-(1mA)*(2k)=-2V

That would mean Vov=Vgs-Vt=-2-2=-4V[/B]

This would mean that Vds>Vov, which means the mosfet is in active region and the
equation
Id=K(Vov)2 cabn be applied.
Thus K=(1mA)/(-4)2=62.5 μA/V

I am sure this is completely wrong, but it is all I have at the moment.

With B, I am not sure how to accomplish this. I have been googling, and it stated I needed the DC and AC load lines. My DC load line was:
Id= (1/600)-Vds/6k

but that is all I have.

Please, any assistance wou;d be greatly appreciated.


 
Physics news on Phys.org
DragonChase29 said:
Id=1mA.
Good so far. In fact, nicely done.
Again, since Ir3=0, that means Vgate=0
Whence this? If there is no current thru the 1 meg then what does the gate voltage have to be? Fix this & we can continue.
 
rude man said:
Good so far. In fact, nicely done.Whence this? If there is no current thru the 1 meg then what does the gate voltage have to be? Fix this & we can continue.

Wait... If there is no current through the resistor, the gate voltage has to be 0. I'm sorry, maybe I am not understanding something...
 
LOL... just figured it out. Since the voltage across the 1Mohm resistor is Vd-Vgate, if the current is 0 amps, then Vgate=Vdrain, which is 6V.
 
Then, Vgs=4 V and the active equation still applies

K=Id/(Vov)2=0.25 mA/V
 
DragonChase29 said:
Then, Vgs=4 V and the active equation still applies

K=Id/(Vov)2=0.25 mA/V
That is ever so much better! :smile:
 
Now onto part B, which is really confusing me. Any resources?
 
DragonChase29 said:
Now onto part B, which is really confusing me. Any resources?
Were you given values for C1 and C2? This part can only be solved given C1 and C2, together with the operating frequency. That's because the 1 meg feedback resistor plays a part in the answer to some extent depending on the above parameters.

What you can otherwise do is assume high values for C1 and C2. In which case the 1 meg plays no part. Just apply a sine voltage about the dc value of Vg which you have calculated in (a) and solve for Id and consequently Vd.
 
We were not given capacitor values. My assumption is its in the mid band, so they are shorted when doing small signal..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #10
DragonChase29 said:
We were not given capacitor values. My assumption is its in the mid band, so they are shorted when doing small signal..
Yes, that's what I meant in my previous post. Just vary the gate voltage and compute the effect on Id, and then look at the effect on Vd and how big a voltage swing you can get there without clipping the sine wave.
 
  • #11
rude man said:
Yes, that's what I meant in my previous post. Just vary the gate voltage and compute the effect on Id, and then look at the effect on Vd and how big a voltage swing you can get there without clipping the sine wave.
I am sorry...I don't understnad this. Vary the gate voltage...How do I know when I clip the sine wave?
 
  • #12
DragonChase29 said:
I am sorry...I don't understnad this. Vary the gate voltage...How do I know when I clip the sine wave?
Make a graph of Id vs. Vg: Id = K(Vg - IdR1 - VT)^2, then Vout = Id*R2.
There is however a problem: this circuit will not give you a sine wave output for a sine wave input if you assume C1 = C2 = infinity. So the answer would then be that only very small sine inputs give a quasi-sine output. To determine how small you have to compute Id(Vg) and see under what condition Id is somewhat linearly related to Vg. I have the answer if you get that far.
 
  • #13
rude man said:
Make a graph of Id vs. Vg: Id = K(Vg - IdR1 - VT)^2, then Vout = Id*R2.
There is however a problem: this circuit will not give you a sine wave output for a sine wave input if you assume C1 = C2 = infinity. So the answer would then be that only very small sine inputs give a quasi-sine output. To determine how small you have to compute Id(Vg) and see under what condition Id is somewhat linearly related to Vg. I have the answer if you get that far.
Thanks for all your help, rude man. Unfortunately, I still am not understanding the method that you are describing. From what I was told, I would need the DC load line and the AC load line. I don't know how to get the AC load line and what to do after
 
  • #14
DragonChase29 said:
Thanks for all your help, rude man. Unfortunately, I still am not understanding the method that you are describing. From what I was told, I would need the DC load line and the AC load line. I don't know how to get the AC load line and what to do after
DragonChase29 said:
Thanks for all your help, rude man. Unfortunately, I still am not understanding the method that you are describing. From what I was told, I would need the DC load line and the AC load line. I don't know how to get the AC load line and what to do after
I've never been too crazy about load lines. Not sure they're even appropriate here since the cicuit is nonlinear. In any case, one way or another you have to effectively do what I wrote in my previous post: graph Id vs. Vg, then Vout = E - IdR2 with E = 10V.

There is a small-signal gain which I think you mean by "AC" which you calculate by taking ∂Id/∂Vg after you get your expression for Id in terms of Vg and VT. For your circuit this gain is ∂Id/∂Vg = 0.67/R2.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
39K