Orbital Mechanics: NASA Launching Probes & GR/SR Considerations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the considerations of General Relativity (GR) and Special Relativity (SR) in the context of NASA's probe launches to comets and planets. Participants explore whether relativistic effects are necessary for mission planning or if Newtonian mechanics suffices, particularly in relation to spacecraft navigation and gravitational modeling.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of GR and SR for mission planning, suggesting that the Newtonian limit may be adequate for most scenarios.
  • One participant notes that while GR is essential for long-term orbital predictions, it may not be necessary for immediate navigation tasks.
  • Another participant mentions that GPS systems, which utilize GR and SR, are primarily designed for Earth-based navigation and may not apply to deep space missions.
  • There is a discussion about the JPL "Horizons" ephemeris and its potential reliance on post-Newtonian models, though uncertainty remains regarding its exact basis.
  • Participants highlight that uncertainties in atmospheric drag and other factors often overshadow any errors from neglecting relativistic effects during spacecraft operations near planets.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of accurately modeling solar system motion over long timescales, regardless of the underlying theory used.
  • There is mention of JPL's models for the Moon's gravitational field and the complexities involved in modeling Earth's gravity, including seasonal variations and non-rigid body effects.
  • Another participant references ongoing work related to elasticity and its connection to relativistic physics, indicating a broader interest in the implications of these theories.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of GR and SR for spacecraft navigation, with some arguing for their importance in specific contexts while others suggest that Newtonian mechanics is sufficient. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which relativistic effects should be considered in mission planning.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential dependence on specific definitions of relativistic effects and the varying accuracy of gravitational models used in mission planning. The discussion also reflects uncertainties in the application of GR and SR in practical scenarios.

blumfeld0
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Hi. I was wondering how GR and/or SR is taken into account when the people over at NASA launch probes to comets, or any of the planets?
I know GPS uses GR and SR and I've read a bit about that. But do they need to take into account GR/SR when planning missions or is the Newtonian limit good enough?

thanks
 
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Hope this helps

blumfeld0 said:
Hi. I was wondering how GR and/or SR is taken into account when the people over at NASA launch probes to comets, or any of the planets?

You'd have to be more specific. E.g. to describe the orbit of Mercury on a timescale of centuries, you need to take account of gtr. So does that mean that to navigate to Mercury you need to use gtr?

blumfeld0 said:
I know GPS uses GR and SR and I've read a bit about that. But do they need to take into account GR/SR when planning missions or is the Newtonian limit good enough?

GPS and other current generation satellite navigation systems are designed for navigation over the surface of the Earth (give or take ten kilometers), so GPS is generally not relevant to space mission navigation.

However, there are some fascinating proposals for deep space satellite navigation systems which would be fully relativistic. See the site in my sig (use the search tool).
 
I don't have much hard information. I don't know for a fact, for instance, whether or not the JPL "Horizons" ephermeris http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons is necessarily used for mission planning.

At this point, I can't even positively confirm that Horizons is based on a PPN model of the solar system, though that's my impression. Use of a PPN model would imply some first order GR type corrections for the sun's gravity.
 
JPL itelf uses http://naif.jpl.nasa.gov/naif/about.html" for mission planning. SPICE and Horizons use the same datasets (DE 405, etc) as the basis for the ephemerides. The DE xxx datasets are formed using some kind of weak-field approximation. The datasets themselves are sets of coefficients for Chebychev polynomials that yield approximate planet positions as a function of time. Thus the users of the datasets doesn't need to know anything about gravity. They just need to know how to form the Chebychev polynomials.
 
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Hi, DH, I think that gets back the point I was struggling to express above: for purposes of spacecraft navigation you need an accurate model of the solar system motion on the scale of years. Where that accuracy comes from (recent detailed observations, Newtonian or post-Newtonian theory, or a complicated combination of multiple sources) shouldn't really matter very much. I think that comes down to saying that for injecting a spacecraft into orbit around Mars (once you somehow know where Mars is located at the time when you want to perform the injection), accurately modeling stuff like solar wind buffeting is probably more important than effects arising from the curvature of spacetime.
 
Chris, you are quite right. In general1, spacecraft operators (and the onboard software) don't model relativistic effects period once a vehicle gets close to a planet. Uncertainties in atmospheric drag, thruster performance, sensor performance, gravity2, vehicle mass properties, and so on, overwhelm (by many orders of magnitude) the errors induced by ignoring relativistic effects.

Notes:
1: The GPS satellites are a special case. The clocks on the satellites need to be modeled with extreme accuracy. Were it not for this concern, people wouldn't bother with modeling relativistic effects on the GPS satellites.

2: The non-spherical nature of a planet becomes an issue once one gets close to a planet. Spacecraft designers use a low-order spherical harmonic model of gravity in the spacecraft flight software and a much higher order model on the ground. Gravity is weird enough even without relativitity. For example, see http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/06nov_loworbit.htm" on the subsatellites released by Apollo 15 and 16.
 
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Hi, DH, thanks for the great link! Do you happen to know to what order JPL (?) carries the spherical harmonics in order to model the gravitational field of the Moon? The Earth? Ditto that the challenges of even Newtonian gravitational physics tends to be underestimated by the public!
 
Chris, JPL has developed several models of the Moon's gravitational field based on Lunar Prospector data. The highest degree model is a 165x165 model, LP 165P. Lower degree/order models are a bit more stable. Here's a paper: http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/15597/1/00-1301.pdf . The best models of the Earth's gravity are the EGM96 model (Goddard/Ohio State; multiple satellites; 360x360 model) and GRACE model (JPL/University of Texas, GRACE satellites; 160x160, 200x200 models).

The Earth (and Moon to a lesser extent) are not rigid bodies. The Earth is plastic and is thus deformed by lunar and solar gravity. (Google "Tidal Love numbers" for more info; beware the junk when googling for love.) On the Earth, ice builds up in the winter, melts in the summer. The tidal and seasonal effects show up as time variations in the spherical harmonic coefficients.
 
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Another great link, thanks!

BTW, speaking of deformations due to "body forces", in a thread called "What is the Theory of Elasticity?" in the relativity subforum at PF, I have been slowly working through some background on linear elasticity, hoping to eventually get to nonlinear elasticity and then relativistic elasticity. I might mention a bit about plasticity too. The goal is to provide background for a thread in which pervect, myself, and Greg Egan studied in detail a relativistic rotating hoop, an infamously tricky problem.
 
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