Order of Integration and Differentiation: Are There Any Exceptions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions under which the order of integration and differentiation can be changed. It touches on theoretical aspects of calculus, particularly the implications of continuity and differentiability of integrands.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the order of integration can always be changed, citing it as a key requirement for an integral to exist.
  • Others argue that changing the order is contingent on the properties of the integrand, specifically that it must be sufficiently nice (continuous and differentiable).
  • A participant provides an example of a continuous but non-differentiable integrand to illustrate that differentiation cannot precede integration in such cases.
  • Another participant references Leibniz's formula, indicating specific conditions under which differentiation under the integral sign is valid, particularly when the limits of integration are constant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the conditions for changing the order of integration and differentiation, with multiple competing views on the sufficiency of integrand properties.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of continuity and differentiability, as well as the specific conditions under which Leibniz's formula applies. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

helenwang413
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Under what condition can we change the order of integration and differentiation?

Thanks!
 
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What do you mean by "change"?
 
helenwang413 said:
Under what condition can we change the order of integration and differentiation?

Thanks!

The order of integration can be changed always. If i remember correctly, that's one of the key requirements for an integral to exist.

Changing the order of integration is done to facilitate the actual integration, ie the integrand and the equation of the boundaries.

marlon
 
Eeh, NO, marlon!

To take a trivial example, have a continuous, but non-differentiable integrand.
An anti-derivative of this function is certainly differentiable, and yields back the integrand, by FOTC.

However, since your integrand is non-differentiable, you cannot differentiate it first, and then compute that non-existent function's anti-derivative.

The upshot of this is that you may change the order of differentiation/integration as long as your integrand is sufficiently nice.
 
Last edited:
arildno said:
Eeh, NO, marlon!

To take a trivial example, have a continuous, but non-differentiable integrand.
An anti-derivative of this function is certainly differentiable, and yields back the integrand, by FOTC.

However, since your integrand is non-differentiable, you cannot differentiate it first, and then compute that non-existent function's anti-derivative.

The upshot of this is that you may change the order of differentiation/integration as long as your integrand is sufficiently nice.

Oppps, thanks for the correction.

marlon
 
Libnitz's formula: If [itex]\phi (x,t)[/itex] is continuous in t and differentiable in x, then
[tex]\frac{d }{dx}\int_{\alpha (x)}^{\beta(x)} \phi(x,t)dt= \frac{d\alpha}{dx}\phi(x,\alpha(x))- \frac{d\beta}{dt}\phi(x,\beta(x))+ \int_{\alpha (x)}^{\beta(x)} \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} dt[/itex]<br /> In particular, if the limits of integration are constant, then <br /> [tex]\frac{d }{dx}\int_a^b \phi(x,t)dt= \int_a^b\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x}dt[/tex][/tex]
 

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