Orthonormal Basis in General Relativity - Carroll

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of orthonormal bases in the context of general relativity, specifically referencing Carroll's work. Participants explore the definitions of basic vectors and their properties, particularly in relation to coordinate systems and specific examples from general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the basic vectors defined by gradients of coordinate functions are obviously orthonormal, suggesting that this may not be the case in non-orthogonal coordinate systems.
  • Another participant agrees that the basis vectors in non-orthogonal systems cannot be considered orthonormal.
  • Several examples from general relativity are proposed, including the geometry of Schwarzschild, the bending of light due to the sun's gravity, and Mercury's orbit, with a query about whether these typically use orthonormal bases.
  • A participant notes that while examples (1) and (2) are orthogonal, they are not orthonormal, and points out that coordinate systems with mixed differential terms indicate non-orthogonality.
  • It is mentioned that even simple coordinate systems like cylindrical and spherical coordinates yield orthogonal but not orthonormal basis vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the orthonormality of basis vectors in various coordinate systems, indicating that there is no consensus on the use of orthonormal bases in the examples provided.

Contextual Notes

There is an acknowledgment that the definitions and properties of orthonormal bases depend on the specific coordinate systems used, and the discussion highlights the complexity of these relationships without resolving them.

exponent137
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Now, I am reading Carroll's http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9712019. On a page 88 he defines basic vectors, which are orthonormal (3.114) and basic vectors given by gradients of coordinate functions.
Are these later basis vectors not obviously orthonormal?
 
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exponent137 said:
Now, I am reading Carroll's http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9712019. On a page 88 he defines basic vectors, which are orthonormal (3.114) and basic vectors given by gradients of coordinate functions.
Are these later basis vectors not obviously orthonormal?
Not if the coordinate system is non-orthogonal.

Chet
 
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I do not imagine enough.
(1) Geometry of Schwarshild. (2) Or desription of bending of a ray because of sun gravity. (3) Or Merkur orbit. (4) And still some typical examples.
Are these examples typicaly use orthonormal basis, or not?
 
exponent137 said:
I do not imagine enough.
(1) Geometry of Schwarshild. (2) Or desription of bending of a ray because of sun gravity. (3) Or Merkur orbit. (4) And still some typical examples.
Are these examples typicaly use orthonormal basis, or not?
(1) and (2) are orthogonal, but not orthonormal. I'm not familiar with (3). Any time you have a line element with a term involving the product of differentials of two different coordinates, the coordinate system is not orthogonal. Even with simple coordinate systems like cylindrical and spherical, the basis vectors are orthogonal, but not orthonormal (i.e., they are not unit vectors).

Chet
 
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