Oscillation amplitude in oscillator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the oscillation amplitude of a circuit behaving as an oscillator. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of oscillation amplitude, including the influence of circuit components and non-linearities.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a condition for oscillation and a formula for oscillation frequency but seeks to find the amplitude of oscillation.
  • Another participant notes that linear circuit analysis does not allow for determining oscillation amplitude, emphasizing the role of non-linearities in the system.
  • A participant suggests that while exact amplitude may not be calculable, an approximation could be made using Fourier series decomposition.
  • Some participants argue that without limiting factors, the amplitude cannot be determined, citing examples of gain settings that affect oscillation maintenance.
  • There is a proposal to use simulations to explore gain-limiting parameters and their effects on oscillation amplitude.
  • One participant raises the possibility that the op-amp could reach saturation, suggesting that the amplitude might be limited by the supply voltage.
  • Another participant agrees that supply rails are a limiting factor in circuit operation.
  • A later reply questions the design implications of using different amplifiers and their effect on frequency and waveform quality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to determine oscillation amplitude, with some emphasizing the role of non-linearities and others suggesting simulation as a method. There is no consensus on a definitive method for calculating amplitude.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various factors that could influence amplitude, such as gain settings, non-linearities, and supply voltage limitations, but these factors remain unresolved in terms of their specific impacts on the amplitude calculation.

Bromio
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Homework Statement


The circuit in attached figure behaves as an oscillator. What is the oscillation amplitude?

2. The attempt at a solution
With H(s), I've calculated the oscillation condition: KM \geq L_1+L_2, and the oscillation frequency: \omega = R_1/\sqrt(L_1 L_1 - M^2)

How can I obtain the amplitude of each oscillation?

Thank you.
 
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The attached figure seems to have become detached.
 
NascentOxygen said:
The attached figure seems to have become detached.

Thank you.

I've just attached the figure in this message.
 

Attachments

  • Oscillator.png
    Oscillator.png
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In general, analysis of the linear circuit doesn't allow you to determine the amplitude of sinusoidal oscillations. The amplitude is determined by non-linearities which are built-in to the system, be they non-linearities in the amplifier, a soft diode clipper, or even just the rail voltage/s of the amplifier. Yes, this means that your sinewave oscillator doesn't generate a pure sinewave, there inevitably is going to be some distortion. (This doesn't mean it will necessarily be visibly distorted, though.)
 
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Thank you.

Certainly, the problem statement said: "Think about what could be the oscillation amplitude".

So, I suppose that, although I can't calculate the exact oscillation amplitude, I will be able to obtain an approximation. How can I do it? Maybe by Fourier series decomposition and taken the first harmonic?

Thank you, again.
 
In the absence of anything to limit the signal level, I don't think you can determine the amplitude. With a closed loop gain of 0.99999 you'll find that oscillation will not be maintained. Yet, the tiniest of increases to the gain, say, to 1.00001 then oscillations will build up without limit. You could simulate this with SPICE or some other package to see.

In the simulation you could then introduce gain-limiting parameters, such as the gain-bandwidth of the amplifier, or slew-rate limiting, or a diode limiter. In your circuit, you could introduce a tiny bit of B-H non-linearity (saturation in the transformer core) to see how that would limit the amplitude of oscillations.
 
NascentOxygen said:
In the absence of anything to limit the signal level, I don't think you can determine the amplitude. With a closed loop gain of 0.99999 you'll find that oscillation will not be maintained. Yet, the tiniest of increases to the gain, say, to 1.00001 then oscillations will build up without limit. You could simulate this with SPICE or some other package to see.

In the simulation you could then introduce gain-limiting parameters, such as the gain-bandwidth of the amplifier, or slew-rate limiting, or a diode limiter. In your circuit, you could introduce a tiny bit of B-H non-linearity (saturation in the transformer core) to see how that would limit the amplitude of oscillations.

Thank you.

Because of this message, I've looking for something in the circuit to know how to estimate the amplitude. May the op-amp become saturation and so the amplitude is Vsat?
 
Bromio said:
May the op-amp become saturation and so the amplitude is Vsat?
Certainly, the supply rails will always be a limiting factor on circuit operation. :devil:
 
NascentOxygen said:
Certainly, the supply rails will always be a limiting factor on circuit operation. :devil:

OK.

Thank you.
 
  • #10
It wouldn't be a good design though. Plug in a different amp with different o/p and the frequency would be different. Besides, the waveform would have to be horrible. (I'm assuming it's supposed to be a sinusoidal oscillator. The feedback resistors set a gain of less than unity over the entire bandwidth, but the inductor, with correct phasing, sidesteps this above some corner frequency.)

BTW, how did you explain the function of R2?
 
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