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Our freedom at risk…your thoughts please

  1. Dec 5, 2004 #1
    A lot of my friends seem to be concerned about the government
    interfering and watching over our daily lives, but what was surprising
    to me was to find out (through a new documentary) that major news
    organizations are also playing a part, though much less publicized
    (because ironically they run the media!)

    Case in point: Al Franken. Here’s a gentleman who was looking to have
    his book published called “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them”. The
    book basically exposes many unknown truths about the lies and dark
    sides of major news organizations. Once Fox News heard about this book,
    they went to court and tried (unsuccessfully) to stop its publication.
    To me, that’s pretty scary. I feel that Americans have the right to
    know what’s going on. If the government doesn’t tell us the whole
    truth, and now we’re learning that the people that run the news that we
    watch each night are doing the same to us, what can we do?

    The film is called “The First Amendment Project”, and I first saw it
    about a month ago at the Hamptons Film Festival. I know it won’t get as
    much publicity as Michael Moore’s recent documentary, but in my
    opinion, this movie is even more important because it exposes the
    people that are bring us the news in the first place. I’m sure you can
    google the name of the movie for more info, or if you want to catch it
    on Court TV next Tuesday night at 10pm. I’m going to tape it for a
    couple friends since no major networks would air it, and not everyone
    has cable.

  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 5, 2004 #2
    There's no such thing as freedom. Think about it.
  4. Dec 5, 2004 #3


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    Freedom of the press also means freedom to run the stories they want to run, and freedom to not run the stories they don't want to run. The freedom is there to protect people from prosecution if the choose to run stories questioning the government or its policies, it isn't there to force media to be fair and tell the whole story, because that wouldn't be freedom. How do you know who to believe anyway? This is the problem with blindly accepting whatever the news tells you. The same for what a documentary or book tells you. How do you know the documentary is really exposing the truth either, or perhaps just slanting innocuous things in a way that allows the writer/producer to sell tickets? When you hear two extreme views, usually the truth lies in between.
  5. Dec 5, 2004 #4
    Quite frankly anyone who uses two different noun forms and the adjective form of the same root for anything except satire immediately reeks of being a crackpot.

    That said, bboyblu, you need to learn to not just accept what is hand fed to you. You're complaining about lack of freedom but you're following the same herd mentality path that makes these same people you're accusing doubt thevalue of your freedom. Did it ever occur to you that the news agency's lawsuit was more about slander, because maybe, its untrue? Or do you just believe that all documentaries are infallible? Al Franken is just as capable of lying as anyone else, sorry to burst your bubble.
  6. Dec 5, 2004 #5
    Face the facts, guys - freedom is an outdated concept. Security is the new freedom.
  7. Dec 5, 2004 #6


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    Fox sued to change the title of the book. The second part is "A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right," which is a parody of Fox News' slogan.
  8. Dec 6, 2004 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    Now I know what the slippery slope looks like from the bottom. IMO, we went over the edge and down the slope long ago when 51%, and not 5% of Americans are willing to re-elect someone like Bush. To me this is like some kind of Orwellian nightmare...I'm still in shock. Even Walter Cronkite agrees!

  9. Dec 6, 2004 #8
    I thought we agreed Cronkite's opinion didn't matter.
  10. Dec 6, 2004 #9
    Aldous Huxley predicted it in Brave New World Revisited, when he forsaw that we'd get lazy when the necessities of life got taken care of, the providers of the good life would gradually reduce our freedoms, and when we finally woke up it would be too late.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2004
  11. Dec 6, 2004 #10
    ok, and by 'Too late' what did he mean? Too late it'll be like that forever? or what?
  12. Dec 7, 2004 #11
    Too late to get our freedoms back. We'd lose even the ability to know what is freedom and what is oppression. You can't get much later than that.
  13. Dec 7, 2004 #12
    I think that we are forgetting something critical about the times in which we live. For those of us living in the USA, we are in a war. Life in war times may require some trade-offs of certain freedoms for safety. This is not uncommon. During the 2nd World War, there was rationing of gas, blackouts, Japanese Americans were intered in holding camps, news stories were closely monitored by the government for their impact on the war, etc.

    This enemy has already shown that the USA is not completely safe from attack. On the day that the WTC was attacked, the Eastcoast experienced some major ramifications that may not have been felt further West. Phone lines were disabled by massive usage (it was frightening to pick up the phone after heaering of the news and find that it was not working), rumors of nuclear weapons discovered (undetonated) in suitcases circulated, many families on the Eastcoast had family members and friends that did not return home from work that day, their cars abandoned at the train stations, in parking garages, at the airports where the planes had departed, etc. In other words, there was fear. Real genuine fear. A fear that many americans had never experienced before.

    I think this has a lot to do with the current limitataions on our freedoms. We must remember that this is a real war that has already touched our soil. With wars come war time measures. My hope is that this war can be won. I don't know that it can be. So I don't know where we can go from there.
  14. Dec 7, 2004 #13


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    I may need to start a new thread about that (liberals and celebrities). Ironic: if liberals think the opinions of celebrities matter, does that help them or hurt them...?
    Damn, and I thought I was cynical. :surprised
    The only analogue I can think of is Nazi Germany. I Nazi Germany, the German people were largely fooled by Hitler - a wolf in sheep's clothing. Tricked by his propaganda, they did little while he siezed dictatorial power.

    Fast forward: today, many people are arguing that a similar situation exists. It doesn't: the Constitution has not been changed and we don't have a dictator in power. The next administration can be whatever the people of the US want it to be. The next Congress can be whatever the people of the US want it to be.

    I am reminded of the entertaining conspiracy theory that had Clinton siezing dictatorial power after the global catastrophe of Y2K. The evidence for this was a FEMA funding/restructuring law passed under Clinton. Point being, the far right and far left are in many ways mirror images of each other: they even share conspiracy theories.
    For some historical perspective, today is December 7 - Pearl Harbor Day. On 12/7/1941, 2,403 Americans were killed, virtually all military - and that precipitated our entrance into a world war. On 9/11, 2,752 Americans were killed - virtually all civilian. I think people have quickly - too quickly - forgotten how huge that is. Its the first foreign attack the American mainland in nearly 200 years. Its more civilians than have been killed in all wars (combined) except the Civil War.

    One of the reasons the Democrats got hammered in this last election was the perception that Democrats take the MoveOn.org philosophy. I consider that a slap in the face of every American who died on 9/11 and every American who died in Afghanistan. We can't just forget about it - we can't move on until we eliminate the threat.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2004
  15. Dec 7, 2004 #14
    Protest! Against! Injustice! State Terror! On the streets of the world!
    I think we'll always be able to get them back, no matter how oppressed we are.

    America's already like that. Damn. Guess it's too late. Sucks to be you.
  16. Dec 7, 2004 #15

    yes. but now they can only protest in "Designated Areas" where no one can see them. or they go to jail... yes it's to late...

    Patriot ACt, TIA, Enemy combatants, Actualy the gov can do anything they want, with total secrecy and impunity....

    This was happening past friday in Argentina USA embasy

    http://argentina.indymedia.org/uploads/img_3012.jpg [Broken]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  17. Dec 7, 2004 #16
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/07/congress.intelligence.ap/index.html [Broken]

    the legislation would create "a single individual who will be responsible for coordinating our intelligence and who will be accountable. "
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  18. Dec 7, 2004 #17


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    Which implies what?
  19. Dec 7, 2004 #18
    Concentration of Power
  20. Dec 7, 2004 #19
    I read it as concentration of information. Can this be bad? One hand might actually know what the other hand is doing.
  21. Dec 7, 2004 #20
    Information is power.. and if it's in the wrong hands.. of course it's bad..
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