Particle motion ode (1st order nonlinear nonhomog)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a first-order nonlinear non-homogeneous ordinary differential equation (ODE) related to particle motion, specifically the equation \(\frac{dv}{dt}-A(B-v)^{1.6}=G\), where A, B, and G are constants. Participants explore potential solutions, assumptions, and integration methods, as well as the implications of certain conditions on the physical validity of the solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the existence of a solution to the ODE and expresses difficulty in obtaining a solution using Matlab.
  • Another participant suggests that assuming \(B = 0\) might simplify the problem and make it solvable.
  • A participant identifies the ODE as separable and refers to an attachment for further clarification.
  • Concerns are raised about the integration of the velocity equation and the integrability of inverse Beta functions.
  • There is a proposal to reformulate the problem as a second-order derivative equation, leading to a new expression involving \(d^2x/dt^2\) and initial conditions for the particle's motion.
  • One participant argues that if \(B = 0\), the equation implies \(v < 0\) or \(v = 0\) to maintain real solutions, which raises questions about the physical interpretation of the velocity.
  • It is noted that the expected solution under the condition \(v = 0\) at \(t = 0\) leads to complications in formal integration, suggesting that numerical methods may be the most practical approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of setting \(B = 0\), particularly regarding the physical validity of the resulting solutions. There is no consensus on the best approach to solve the ODE, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the integration methods and the nature of the solutions.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention potential limitations in formal integration methods and the complexity of the resulting functions, indicating that numerical integration might be necessary. There are also unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions under which the solutions hold true.

kyze
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hi all,

I've been trying to work this problem out,

[itex]\frac{dv}{dt}-A(B-v)^{1.6}=G[/itex]

A, B and G are constants

and Matlab can't give me a solution either. I'm wondering if there is even a solution?
 
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Hi,

Just realized I can make an assumption for B = 0. Does this make it solvable?
 
Hi !
The ODe is of the "separables variables" kind (see in attachment) :
 

Attachments

  • ODE Beta.JPG
    ODE Beta.JPG
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wow! thanks
 
Sorry, there was a typo at the end of the attached page :
 

Attachments

  • ODE Beta.JPG
    ODE Beta.JPG
    32.5 KB · Views: 445
Since v represents velocity, can I then integrate the v-equation? Are inv. Beta functions integratable?

Or would it be simpler to determine the x-position by setting up the original equation as a second order derivative as:

d2xdt2−A(B−v)^1.6=G

and as B = 0 then

[itex]\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}+A(\frac{dx}{dt})^{1.6}=G[/itex]
with initial conditions
dx/dt(0) = 0

i.e. particle initially at rest

Sorry to ask again, but could you show me this solution? I really struggle with maths.
 
Last edited:
Hi !

If B=0 your basic equation dv/dt−A(−v)^1.6=G implies v<0 or v=0. If not, (-v)^1.6 would not be real and the solution v(t) would not be real, which is not correct on a physical point of view. So v<0 or v=0.
In the general solution given in my preceeding post, let c=0 and B=0 in the formula. Then Y(0)=0 ; Inverse Beta (0) = 0 which leads to v=0.
The expected solution with condition v=0 at t=0 is obtained with c=0 in the formula.

The function v(t) is not a simple Inverse Beta function, but a combination of several functions with the Inverse Beta among them. It's far too complicated for formal integration. I think that the only practical way is numerical integration. If it is that what you want, the simplest way is probably to use a numerical process for solving directly the differential equation.
 
Last edited:

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