Particle projected from above a dome

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a particle projected from above a dome, following a parabolic trajectory. Participants explore the relationship between the particle's motion, its speed upon reaching the ground, and the geometry of the dome, particularly focusing on the angle of projection and the height at which the particle impacts the dome.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivation of the final speed of the particle and its independence from the angle of projection, raising questions about the implications of energy conservation. There are attempts to clarify the conditions under which the particle collides with the dome and the assumptions regarding its trajectory. Some participants suggest that the problem may require the particle to touch the dome tangentially, leading to discussions about the necessary constraints on height and speed.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations of the problem being explored. Some participants have provided insights into the relationships between variables, while others express uncertainty about the clarity of the problem statement. There is a recognition that the calculations involved may be complex and that alternative approaches might be necessary.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential ambiguities in the problem's wording, particularly regarding the conditions for the particle's interaction with the dome. There is also mention of the need for constraints to ensure that the particle impacts the dome at a tangent, which has not been definitively established in the discussion.

  • #31
PeroK said:
I think you have to be careful with that technique. In general, the minimum of the function ##f(z) = g(z) + h(z)## occurs when ##g'(z) + h'(z) = 0## and not when ##g(z) = h(z)##. The GM of ##\sqrt{g(z)h(z)}## may be unrelated to the minimum value.
Yes, but in our case the GM is independent of ##z##.

In our case, ##x = az## and ##y = b/z## with ##a## and ##b## positive numbers. So, the GM of ##x## and ##y## is GM = ##\sqrt{ab}## for all nonzero values of ##z##. Hence the AM of ##x## and ##y## must be ##\ge \sqrt{ab}## for all ##z##. $$ \text{AM} = \frac 1 2 (x + y) = \frac 1 2 (az + \frac b z) \ge \sqrt{ab}$$To see that the minimum value of the AM is, in fact, ##\sqrt{ab}##, we note that it should be clear that there is a value of ##z## such that ##az = b/z## and, hence, ##x = y##. When ##x = y##, the AM of ##x## and ##y## equals the GM of ##x## and ##y##. So, we can conclude that the minimum value of ##\frac 1 2 (az + b/z) = \sqrt{ab}##.

I'm sure that's not the clearest argument. But I hope it makes sense.
 
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  • #32
TSny said:
Yes, but in our case the GM is independent of ##z##.
The technique works as long as the minimum occurs when the two functions are equal. Which is the case here. But, in general, it is not a valid technique for minimizing a function.
 
  • #33
I agree, it's not a general method of finding a minimum. But, I think it's neat when it applies (which probably isn't that often).

Take ##F(x) = \dfrac{8 \cot x}{\sqrt x} + 2 \sqrt x \tan x##

The product of the two terms is the constant 16. The first term monotonically decreases for ##0 < x < \pi/2## and the second term monotonically increases for ##0< x < \pi/2##. So, there must be a value of ##x## in this range where the two terms are equal. So, we can use the AM-GM inequality to see that the minimum of ##F(x)## in this range is ##2\sqrt{16} = 8##.
 
  • #34
TSny said:
I agree, it's not a general method of finding a minimum. But, I think it's neat when it applies (which probably isn't that often).

Take ##F(x) = \dfrac{8 \cot x}{\sqrt x} + 2 \sqrt x \tan x##
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
 
  • #35
PeroK said:
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
Yes.

Edit: I think there is also the condition that the two terms ##af(x)## and ##\dfrac b {f(x)}## be positive.
 
Last edited:
  • #36
PeroK said:
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
Providing ##af(x)## and ##\frac b {f(x)}## are both positive in the domain of interest!
 
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  • #37
Steve4Physics said:
Providing ##af(x)## and ##\frac b {f(x)}## are both positive in the domain of interest!
The main criterion is that their ranges overlap. I forgot to add that above.
 
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  • #38
PeroK said:
The main criterion is that their ranges overlap. I forgot to add that above.
Yes, in my example I should have said that the first term decreases from ##\infty## to ##0## while the second term increases from ##0## to ##\infty## for ##0<x<\pi/2##. Thus, there is an ##x## in this domain where the two terms are equal.
 
  • #39
In general ##(a,b>0)## , if ##z>0## then $$az+\frac{b}{z}\geq 2\sqrt{az\cdot\frac{b}{z}}=2\sqrt{ab}$$ If ##z<0\implies -z>0## then $$-az-\frac{b}{z}\geq 2\sqrt{-az\cdot\frac{-b}{z}} =2\sqrt{ab}\implies az+\frac{b}{z}\leq -2\sqrt{ab}$$
 
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