Particle projected from above a dome

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The discussion revolves around the trajectory of a particle projected from above a dome, specifically analyzing its parabolic path and the conditions for collision with the dome. Participants explore the relationship between the initial speed, height, and angle of projection, with a focus on minimizing the final speed upon impact with the ground. There is a consensus that the problem requires ensuring the particle hits the dome tangentially, which complicates the calculations. Various mathematical approaches are suggested, including using the AM-GM inequality to find minimum values and deriving relationships between variables. Ultimately, the complexity of the problem is acknowledged, with participants considering alternative methods to simplify the calculations.
  • #31
PeroK said:
I think you have to be careful with that technique. In general, the minimum of the function ##f(z) = g(z) + h(z)## occurs when ##g'(z) + h'(z) = 0## and not when ##g(z) = h(z)##. The GM of ##\sqrt{g(z)h(z)}## may be unrelated to the minimum value.
Yes, but in our case the GM is independent of ##z##.

In our case, ##x = az## and ##y = b/z## with ##a## and ##b## positive numbers. So, the GM of ##x## and ##y## is GM = ##\sqrt{ab}## for all nonzero values of ##z##. Hence the AM of ##x## and ##y## must be ##\ge \sqrt{ab}## for all ##z##. $$ \text{AM} = \frac 1 2 (x + y) = \frac 1 2 (az + \frac b z) \ge \sqrt{ab}$$To see that the minimum value of the AM is, in fact, ##\sqrt{ab}##, we note that it should be clear that there is a value of ##z## such that ##az = b/z## and, hence, ##x = y##. When ##x = y##, the AM of ##x## and ##y## equals the GM of ##x## and ##y##. So, we can conclude that the minimum value of ##\frac 1 2 (az + b/z) = \sqrt{ab}##.

I'm sure that's not the clearest argument. But I hope it makes sense.
 
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  • #32
TSny said:
Yes, but in our case the GM is independent of ##z##.
The technique works as long as the minimum occurs when the two functions are equal. Which is the case here. But, in general, it is not a valid technique for minimizing a function.
 
  • #33
I agree, it's not a general method of finding a minimum. But, I think it's neat when it applies (which probably isn't that often).

Take ##F(x) = \dfrac{8 \cot x}{\sqrt x} + 2 \sqrt x \tan x##

The product of the two terms is the constant 16. The first term monotonically decreases for ##0 < x < \pi/2## and the second term monotonically increases for ##0< x < \pi/2##. So, there must be a value of ##x## in this range where the two terms are equal. So, we can use the AM-GM inequality to see that the minimum of ##F(x)## in this range is ##2\sqrt{16} = 8##.
 
  • #34
TSny said:
I agree, it's not a general method of finding a minimum. But, I think it's neat when it applies (which probably isn't that often).

Take ##F(x) = \dfrac{8 \cot x}{\sqrt x} + 2 \sqrt x \tan x##
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
 
  • #35
PeroK said:
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
Yes.

Edit: I think there is also the condition that the two terms ##af(x)## and ##\dfrac b {f(x)}## be positive.
 
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  • #36
PeroK said:
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
Providing ##af(x)## and ##\frac b {f(x)}## are both positive in the domain of interest!
 
  • #37
Steve4Physics said:
Providing ##af(x)## and ##\frac b {f(x)}## are both positive in the domain of interest!
The main criterion is that their ranges overlap. I forgot to add that above.
 
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  • #38
PeroK said:
The main criterion is that their ranges overlap. I forgot to add that above.
Yes, in my example I should have said that the first term decreases from ##\infty## to ##0## while the second term increases from ##0## to ##\infty## for ##0<x<\pi/2##. Thus, there is an ##x## in this domain where the two terms are equal.
 
  • #39
In general ##(a,b>0)## , if ##z>0## then $$az+\frac{b}{z}\geq 2\sqrt{az\cdot\frac{b}{z}}=2\sqrt{ab}$$ If ##z<0\implies -z>0## then $$-az-\frac{b}{z}\geq 2\sqrt{-az\cdot\frac{-b}{z}} =2\sqrt{ab}\implies az+\frac{b}{z}\leq -2\sqrt{ab}$$
 

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