Particle projected from above a dome

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The forum discussion centers on the physics problem of a particle projected from above a dome, specifically analyzing its parabolic trajectory and the conditions for minimizing its speed upon impact with the ground. The participants derive equations involving gravitational acceleration (g), the height (h), and the parameter (k) defined as $$k=\frac{\sin\theta}{R\cos^2\theta}$$. They conclude that the final speed is independent of the angle of projection, and the minimum speed can be expressed as $$\mid v_{\min}\mid =\sqrt{2gR(\sin\theta\pm \cos\theta)}$$ for $$\theta\in\left(0,\frac{\pi}{2}\right)$$. The discussion emphasizes the importance of ensuring the particle impacts the dome tangentially to simplify the problem.

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  • #31
PeroK said:
I think you have to be careful with that technique. In general, the minimum of the function ##f(z) = g(z) + h(z)## occurs when ##g'(z) + h'(z) = 0## and not when ##g(z) = h(z)##. The GM of ##\sqrt{g(z)h(z)}## may be unrelated to the minimum value.
Yes, but in our case the GM is independent of ##z##.

In our case, ##x = az## and ##y = b/z## with ##a## and ##b## positive numbers. So, the GM of ##x## and ##y## is GM = ##\sqrt{ab}## for all nonzero values of ##z##. Hence the AM of ##x## and ##y## must be ##\ge \sqrt{ab}## for all ##z##. $$ \text{AM} = \frac 1 2 (x + y) = \frac 1 2 (az + \frac b z) \ge \sqrt{ab}$$To see that the minimum value of the AM is, in fact, ##\sqrt{ab}##, we note that it should be clear that there is a value of ##z## such that ##az = b/z## and, hence, ##x = y##. When ##x = y##, the AM of ##x## and ##y## equals the GM of ##x## and ##y##. So, we can conclude that the minimum value of ##\frac 1 2 (az + b/z) = \sqrt{ab}##.

I'm sure that's not the clearest argument. But I hope it makes sense.
 
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  • #32
TSny said:
Yes, but in our case the GM is independent of ##z##.
The technique works as long as the minimum occurs when the two functions are equal. Which is the case here. But, in general, it is not a valid technique for minimizing a function.
 
  • #33
I agree, it's not a general method of finding a minimum. But, I think it's neat when it applies (which probably isn't that often).

Take ##F(x) = \dfrac{8 \cot x}{\sqrt x} + 2 \sqrt x \tan x##

The product of the two terms is the constant 16. The first term monotonically decreases for ##0 < x < \pi/2## and the second term monotonically increases for ##0< x < \pi/2##. So, there must be a value of ##x## in this range where the two terms are equal. So, we can use the AM-GM inequality to see that the minimum of ##F(x)## in this range is ##2\sqrt{16} = 8##.
 
  • #34
TSny said:
I agree, it's not a general method of finding a minimum. But, I think it's neat when it applies (which probably isn't that often).

Take ##F(x) = \dfrac{8 \cot x}{\sqrt x} + 2 \sqrt x \tan x##
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
 
  • #35
PeroK said:
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
Yes.

Edit: I think there is also the condition that the two terms ##af(x)## and ##\dfrac b {f(x)}## be positive.
 
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  • #36
PeroK said:
It applies to any function of the form ##af(x) + \frac b {f(x)}## , which that one is.
Providing ##af(x)## and ##\frac b {f(x)}## are both positive in the domain of interest!
 
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  • #37
Steve4Physics said:
Providing ##af(x)## and ##\frac b {f(x)}## are both positive in the domain of interest!
The main criterion is that their ranges overlap. I forgot to add that above.
 
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  • #38
PeroK said:
The main criterion is that their ranges overlap. I forgot to add that above.
Yes, in my example I should have said that the first term decreases from ##\infty## to ##0## while the second term increases from ##0## to ##\infty## for ##0<x<\pi/2##. Thus, there is an ##x## in this domain where the two terms are equal.
 
  • #39
In general ##(a,b>0)## , if ##z>0## then $$az+\frac{b}{z}\geq 2\sqrt{az\cdot\frac{b}{z}}=2\sqrt{ab}$$ If ##z<0\implies -z>0## then $$-az-\frac{b}{z}\geq 2\sqrt{-az\cdot\frac{-b}{z}} =2\sqrt{ab}\implies az+\frac{b}{z}\leq -2\sqrt{ab}$$
 
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