Perpetuum Mobile: Robert Boyle's Self-Flowing Flask

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of a perpetual motion machine, specifically referencing Robert Boyle's self-flowing flask. Participants explore the mechanics of fluid flow in relation to thermodynamics and pressure differentials, examining why the proposed idea does not function as intended.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that their idea for a perpetual motion machine resembles Boyle's self-flowing flask but struggles to understand why it fails due to thermodynamic principles.
  • Another participant points out that both ends of the device being open to air pressure means there cannot be flow without a pressure differential, urging examination of static pressure in the system.
  • A different participant elaborates that water will only flow if the output nozzle is lower than the water level in the flask, explaining that without this height difference, water will return to the same level as the flask.
  • One participant mentions that while the proposed concept cannot create a perpetual motion machine, a heat difference could potentially induce flow in a different setup, highlighting the unique thermal properties of water and gases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of a pressure differential or height difference for fluid flow, but there is no consensus on the feasibility of the proposed perpetual motion concept or the implications of heat differences in fluid dynamics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the underlying assumptions about fluid dynamics and thermodynamics, nor does it clarify the specific conditions under which the proposed ideas might operate.

Nissan
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i had an idea about a perpetual motion machine.
i have read and saw that my idea is just like Robert Boyle's self-flowing flask.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Boyle'sSelfFlowingFlask.png
from what i read this machine who by my idea should let the water move for eternity is not working because it doesn't follow the rules of thermodinamics.
I didn't really understand this explanation,does anyone knows what's the problem?
 
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Both ends of the "device" are at the same pressure. There can not be flow without a pressure differential. Examone what the static pressure will be in the tube and the vessel. Also take a look at how liquid levels work. You'll see some similarity there.
 
Since both ends are open to air pressure, the only thing that can make water flow through the tube is a difference in heights. Only when the output nozzle is lower than the flask water level will the water flow. This is not the case in the drawing, and what will really happen is that the water will fall back down the tube until it is at the same level as the flask water. If the nozzle is held lower than the flask water level, water will flow out the tube, but there will be no way to get it back into the flask without doing work. While this concept can be used to steal gasoline from people's cars, sadly it can't be used to make a perpetual motion machine.
 
Riposte said:
Since both ends are open to air pressure, the only thing that can make water flow through the tube is a difference in heights.

Actually, it's also possible to get this to happen if there's a heat difference. Water has weird thermal properties, but any gas will flow up the warm side, and down the cold side of a looped vertical tube if the temperature difference is maintained.
 

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