Perturbation approximation of the period of a pendulum

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the perturbation approximation of the period of a pendulum, expressed in terms of powers of the angle θ0. The integral involved is T=\sqrt{\frac{8L}{g}}\int^{\theta_0}_{0} \frac{d\theta}{\sqrt{cos\theta - cos\theta_0}}, with a suggested change of variable to u = θ/θ0.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the Taylor expansion of θ0 and its implications for the perturbation approximation. There are questions about the meaning of the terms θ00, θ01, and θ02, and whether the expansion should be around θ0 or u=0. Some participants express confusion about the correctness of their approaches and the interpretation of the problem.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the problem and the appropriate methods for expansion. Some guidance has been offered regarding the Taylor series expansion and the need to differentiate with respect to u. There is no explicit consensus yet, as participants continue to clarify their understanding and approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original problem specifies to go to O(θ2) and that the integration limits for u range from 0 to 1. There is also mention of potential misunderstandings regarding the expansion terms and their relevance to the perturbation approximation.

limofunder
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Homework Statement


Find the perturbation approximation of the following in terms of powers of θ0.
[tex]T=\sqrt{\frac{8L}{g}}\int^{\theta_0}_{0} \frac{d\theta}{\sqrt{cos\theta - cos\theta_0}}[/tex]
It is helpful to first perform the change of variable u = θ/θ0 in the integral


Homework Equations




so the relevant equations are the taylor expansion of θ0, which would be
θ000+εθ012 θ02/2

The Attempt at a Solution


so then making the change of variable suggested, we have
[tex]T=\sqrt{\frac{8L}{g}}\int^{\theta_0}_{0} \frac{\theta_0 du}{\sqrt{cos(u\theta_0) - cos\theta_0}}[/tex]
is it correct to say that the perturbation approximation is then
[tex]\frac{\theta_0_0 + \epsilon \theta_0_1+<br /> \frac{\epsilon^2 \theta_0_2}{2}...}{\sqrt{cos(u\theta_0_0)-\epsilon sin(u\theta_0_1)-\epsilon^2cos(u\theta_0_2)-cost\theta_0_0)-\epsilon sin(theta_0_1)-\epsilon^2cos(\theta_0_2)...-cos\theta_0}}=0[/tex]

or am i doing something wrong?
 
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limofunder said:

Homework Statement


Find the perturbation approximation of the following in terms of powers of θ0.
[tex]T=\sqrt{\frac{8L}{g}}\int^{\theta_0}_{0} \frac{d\theta}{\sqrt{cos\theta - cos\theta_0}}[/tex]
It is helpful to first perform the change of variable u = θ/θ0 in the integral

Homework Equations

so the relevant equations are the taylor expansion of θ0, which would be
θ000+εθ012 θ02/2

Huh?! :confused:

What are [itex]\theta_{0_0}[/itex], [itex]\theta_{0_1}[/itex] and [itex]\theta_{0_2}[/itex] supposed to represent?

The Attempt at a Solution


so then making the change of variable suggested, we have
[tex]T=\sqrt{\frac{8L}{g}}\int^{\theta_0}_{0} \frac{\theta_0 du}{\sqrt{cos(u\theta_0) - cos\theta_0}}[/tex]
is it correct to say that the perturbation approximation is then
[tex]\frac{\theta_0_0 + \epsilon \theta_0_1+<br /> \frac{\epsilon^2 \theta_0_2}{2}...}{\sqrt{cos(u\theta_0_0)-\epsilon sin(u\theta_0_1)-\epsilon^2cos(u\theta_0_2)-cost\theta_0_0)-\epsilon sin(theta_0_1)-\epsilon^2cos(\theta_0_2)...-cos\theta_0}}=0[/tex]

or am i doing something wrong?

What you have written seems nonsensical to me.

The way I would interpret the question is that you are supposed to Taylor expand the integrand about the point [itex]\theta=\theta_0[/itex], then integrate your Taylor Series term by term in order to end up with a series of the form:

[tex]\sum_{n=0}^\infty a_n \theta_0^n[/tex]

that represents your integral.
 
i erroneously thought that the
θ00+εθ01+ε2 θ02/2
terms represented the expansion about θ0.

so then following the help you gave, the expansion of the integrand would be
following Taylor series:
f(0)+f'(0)+f''(0)... where we only go the second order since the original problem asks us to go to O(θ2) (I forgot to list this in the original question).
we get
[tex]\frac{\theta_0}{\sqrt{cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0}}+\frac{2 (cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)-\theta_0(sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)}{2 (cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^{3/2}}*\theta_0[/tex]
[tex]+ \frac{2 (cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^{3/2}[(sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)-\theta_0(cos\theta_0-u^2cosu\theta_0)]-6[(cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)-\theta_0(sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)]((sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)(cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^{1/2}}{4(cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^3}[/tex]
of course, last term would also be multiplied by θ02/2.when substituting in 0 for fn, however, everything becomes zero, so what did i do wrong?
 
limofunder said:
i erroneously thought that the
θ00+εθ01+ε2 θ02/2
terms represented the expansion about θ0.

so then following the help you gave, the expansion of the integrand would be
following Taylor series:
f(0)+f'(0)+f''(0)... where we only go the second order since the original problem asks us to go to O(θ2) (I forgot to list this in the original question).
we get
[tex]\frac{\theta_0}{\sqrt{cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0}}+\frac{2 (cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)-\theta_0(sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)}{2 (cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^{3/2}}*\theta_0[/tex]
[tex]+ \frac{2 (cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^{3/2}[(sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)-\theta_0(cos\theta_0-u^2cosu\theta_0)]-6[(cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)-\theta_0(sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)]((sin\theta_0-usinu\theta_0)(cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^{1/2}}{4(cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0)^3}[/tex]
of course, last term would also be multiplied by θ02/2.when substituting in 0 for fn, however, everything becomes zero, so what did i do wrong?

Since you know [itex]0\leq u\leq 1[/itex] for your entire integration interval, try expanding [itex]f(u)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{\cos(u\theta_0)-\cos(\theta_0)}}[/itex] about [itex]u=0[/itex] instead.
 
So the expansion of
[tex] f(u)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{\cos(u\theta_0)-\cos(\theta_0)}}[/tex]
about u=0 gives:
f(u)+θ0f'(u)+θ02/2
yielding
[tex]\frac{1}{\sqrt{cosu\theta_0-cos\theta_0}}+\frac{u\sin(u\theta_0)}{2 (\cos(u\theta_0)-\cos(\theta_0)^{3/2}}+\frac{\sin(u\theta_0)+u^2\cos(u\theta_0))(\cos(u\theta_0)-\cos(\theta_0))+\frac{3}{2}u^2\sin^2(u\theta_0)}{4(\cos(u\theta_0)-\cos(\theta_0)^{3/2}}[/tex]
thus about u=0, everything but the first term becomes 0, giving:
[tex]\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\cos(\theta_0)}}}[/tex]
how can we solve about bigOH(θ02)?
 
limofunder said:
So the expansion of
[tex] f(u)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{\cos(u\theta_0)-\cos(\theta_0)}}[/tex]
about u=0 gives:
f(u)+θ0f'(u)+θ02/2

No, the expansion about [itex]u=0[/itex] is:

[tex]f(u)=f(0)+f'(0)u+\frac{f''(0)}{2!}u^2+\frac{f'''(0)}{3!}u^3+\ldots[/tex]

And since [itex]f(u)[/itex] is a function of [itex]u[/itex], the differentiation is with respect to [itex]u[/itex], not [itex]\theta_0[/itex].
 
I think I finally understand it, then we use the fact that u=θ/θ0, and rewrite the expansion in terms of θ0?
 

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