Phasor Voltage and Voltage RMS value

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between phasor voltage and RMS voltage, exploring their definitions, applications in AC circuits, and mathematical representations. Participants delve into the implications of these concepts in the context of electrical engineering and power calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the difference between phasor voltage and RMS voltage, suggesting that RMS is divided by the square root of 2 only for sine waves.
  • One participant explains that RMS values are used to calculate real power in AC circuits, equating it to DC power when using RMS values for current and voltage.
  • A participant describes phasor voltage as representing instantaneous voltage values, contrasting it with RMS voltage, which is said to be equivalent to a DC voltage in terms of heat generated in a resistor.
  • Another participant provides a detailed mathematical representation of phasor voltage using Euler's Formula, emphasizing the simplification of calculations when using phasors.
  • Discussion includes a mathematical derivation of RMS voltage, with a participant noting an error in their earlier explanation regarding the integration factor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretation of phasor and RMS voltage, with no consensus reached on the clarity of these concepts or their distinctions.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include potential misunderstandings of the definitions of phasor and RMS voltage, as well as unresolved mathematical details in the derivation of RMS voltage.

theman408
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What's the difference between the two?

RMS is divided by square root of 2?
 
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In short, it's used to easily calculate real power of AC circuits.

Power is: P = IV

if you use the rms values for current and voltage, then the power is the same as if I and V were DC instead of AC.
 
theman408 said:
What's the difference between the two?

RMS is divided by square root of 2?

Only for a sine wave.
 
Phasor voltage represents the instantaneous value of the voltage. For example in time t the voltage may have a value of 120V and one second later it may have a voltage of 50V.
The rms voltage is (let say) the ac voltage that is equivalent to the dc voltage. This is not very clear. Isn't it?
So, let explain it in another way. A famous example that always is given for explanation of the rms concept is the associated heat generated by a resistor due to the current flowing through it.
Let's apply an ac voltage to a resistor for one hour and measure the generated heat from the resistor. Afterward, we will aplly a dc voltage to the resistor that generate the same value of the heat and for the same time.
It is said that the ac voltage in this case has an rms value that is equal to the applied dc voltage.
 
theman408 said:
What's the difference between [phasor voltage and the voltage RMS value]?

Voltage phasor
By using Euler's Formula, the voltage can be expressed as

V = V_{0} \:cos(\omega t + \phi)= Re[V_{0}\:e^{j(\omega t + \phi)}]=Re[V_{0}\:e^{j\phi}e^{j \omega t}]=Re[\bar{V}e^{j \omega t}]

where \bar{V}= V_{0}\:e^{j \phi} is known as the phasor.

In effect you have factored out the time-dependency, and you're left with a representation (the phasor) of voltage that only deals with the static quantities of amplitude and phase angle of the cosine function. Being able to represent voltage this way simplifies a lot of calculations, e.g. addition of two sinusoidally time-varying functions (of the same frequency) is reduced from a trigonometric problem to a simple algebraic problem. To sneak back into the time-domain, you just shamelessly tack on the e^{j \omega t} to your result. Good stuff!

RMS Value
If you combine the fact that 1) when dealing with ac power, you're usually interested in the average value of power during each cycle of the waveform, with 2) power is proportional to the voltage squared, you get

{V_{rms}}^2=\frac{V_{0}^{2}}{T}\int^{T}_{0}cos^{2}(\omega t) dt = \frac{V_{0}^{2}}{T}\int^{T}_{0}1+cos(2\:\omega t) dt = \frac{V_{0}^{2}}{2}

Or

V_{rms}=\frac{V_{0}}{\sqrt{2}}EDIT: For some reason I can't edit the tex code to correct the missing 1/2 factor. It's supposed to be

\frac{V_{0}^{2}}{T}\int^{T}_{0}\frac{1}{2}+\frac{cos(2\:\omega t)}{2}\:dt
 
Last edited:

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