Phenyl and methyl shift

  • Thread starter NEILS BOHR
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  • #1
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why is phenyl shift better than methyl shift?
 

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  • #2
Borek
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You did everything possible to ask the question that is impossible to answer.

In what context? Better for what?
 
  • #3
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:rofl:

i mean whenever theres a possibility of the 2 happening , why is the former given more priority than the latter??
 
  • #4
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I'd say it's because a phenyl group has far more steric hindrance, so it'd be more "pressured" to shift.
 
  • #5
Borek
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:rofl:

i mean whenever theres a possibility of the 2 happening , why is the former given more priority than the latter??
I wonder if you are aware that your question is still ambiguous.
 
  • #6
chemisttree
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He's asking about carbocation rearrangement. Why is the phenyl group more likely to undergo rearrangement than the methyl group when both groups are present?

In the transition state, the alkyl and the phenyl group are both bonded in a similar fashion to the carbocation center. The phenyl group does something special with that positive charge that the methyl group cannot do as easily. Think about it some more.
 
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  • #7
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Its still case dependent.

If the carbocation is adjacent to a carbon bearing an alkyl and phenyl group, then the alkyl group (or hydride or what have you) would shift to place the carbocation in the benzylic position. A phenyl shift, in this situation, would not result in the most stable carbocation.

I would like to see an example of what the OP had in mind. I'm sure there are examples of what is being said here, but I was taught the complete opposite (unless I'm misunderstanding something here).
 
  • #8
chemisttree
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Its still case dependent.

If the carbocation is adjacent to a carbon bearing an alkyl and phenyl group, then the alkyl group (or hydride or what have you) would shift to place the carbocation in the benzylic position. A phenyl shift, in this situation, would not result in the most stable carbocation.
Is that true? The transition state is a three centered bond that contains a positive charge. What can happen with a cationic charge associated with a phenyl group that isn't possible with a methyl group?
 
  • #9
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Is that true? The transition state is a three centered bond that contains a positive charge. What can happen with a cationic charge associated with a phenyl group that isn't possible with a methyl group?
I'm pretty sure you're talking about resonance but I'm not sure why the phenyl would shift instead of a methyl or hydride thus not allowing for that resonance stabilization to be present.
 
  • #10
chemisttree
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What do you know about the stability of the transition state (and how that effects reaction rate) where the cation is further stabilized by resonance? How does a more stable transition state affect the Eact?
 
  • #11
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:approve:

actually our sir asked this question

and we explained all the things we could ( talking about carbocation rearrangement as well)

but he didnt look to be approved of what we had to say!!:rolleyes:
 

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