Photons Trapped on Expanding Event Horizons

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of photons at event horizons, particularly in the context of expanding horizons due to disturbances such as infalling matter. Participants explore whether photons that are trapped on a horizon will remain there even when the horizon is dynamically altered, and how this might relate to the geometry of the horizon and the nature of perturbations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant posits that photons radiated outward at the horizon remain on the horizon due to the definition of a light-like 2-surface and questions whether this holds for disturbed, expanding horizons.
  • Another participant suggests examining the spherically symmetric case to identify any assumptions that may be specific to that symmetry.
  • There is a reference to theorems by Hawking and Ellis regarding the behavior of null generators of horizons, indicating that once a null generator has entered a horizon, it cannot leave, provided certain energy conditions are met.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the specific assumptions required to apply these theorems to more general cases beyond spherical symmetry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the question of whether photons will remain on disturbed horizons. Multiple viewpoints and uncertainties regarding the applicability of existing theorems and the implications of different geometries are present.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific geometrical assumptions and the need for clarity on the energy conditions required for the theorems mentioned. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

tom.stoer
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Suppose we have an event horizon H which is a light-like, closed 2-surface. Photons radiated outwards at the horizon along a light-like normal u of the horizon stay on the horizon (this is trivial b/c this statement is nothing else but the definition of the light-like 2-surface).

Now suppose we disturb the horizon, e.g. via infalling matter. This will result in a "dynamical expanding horizon". By definition this horizon is a light-like 2-surface, too.

Question: can one proof (or disprove) that photons trapped on the horizon will stay on the horizon even for disturbed, expanding horizons?

I think this question is equivalent to the question whether "the horizon expands along the normal u".

The answer is simple for Schwarzschild geometry and radially infalling shells of dust. But I don't see how to generalize this for horizons with arbitrary geometry and arbitrary perturbations.
 
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no idea?
 
The only thing I can think of is to explicitly walk through the "simple" argument for the spherically symmetric case and see what, if any assumptions are required that actually depend on exact spherical symmetry.

Also (this would be the other only thing I can think of :wink:), it might be worth consulting Hawking and Ellis; the theorems there about the behavior of null generators of horizons (which are the outgoing null geodesics that "expand along the normal u" in your terminology) are, IIRC, pretty general. In particular, I think there's a theorem to the effect that once a null generator has entered a horizon, it can never leave it, as long as the energy conditions hold. I can't remember exactly what other assumptions are needed to derive the theorem, but as I said, I think they're pretty general.
 
PeterDonis said:
Also (this would be the other only thing I can think of :wink:), it might be worth consulting Hawking and Ellis; the theorems there about the behavior of null generators of horizons (which are the outgoing null geodesics that "expand along the normal u" in your terminology) are, IIRC, pretty general. In particular, I think there's a theorem to the effect that once a null generator has entered a horizon, it can never leave it, as long as the energy conditions hold. I can't remember exactly what other assumptions are needed to derive the theorem, but as I said, I think they're pretty general.

Yes, I too remember something like this, and I think Hawking and Ellis would be a good place to look (also the books by Wald, Penrose, Joshi).
 

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