Pictures of Magnetic Field Lines

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the visualization and understanding of magnetic field lines generated by multiple linked current loops, including specific configurations like the Hopf link and Borromean rings. Participants explore the application of the Biot-Savart law and alternative methods for calculating magnetic fields, as well as the geometric and topological implications of these fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire for visual representations of magnetic field lines for linked current loops, specifically mentioning the Hopf link and Borromean rings.
  • Another participant suggests that for proper circular rings, formulas can be used instead of the Biot-Savart law, emphasizing the need to sum contributions from all rings to visualize the field lines.
  • Concerns are raised about the behavior of magnetic fields inside conductors, noting that while the total field should be continuous, it may not be differentiable.
  • It is proposed that for arbitrary sets of current loops, the magnetic fields can be calculated separately and then combined, provided the fields are not strong enough to affect the currents significantly.
  • A participant discusses the geometry of magnetic fields in relation to cohomology, suggesting that the linking number for a single loop and the effects of reversing current direction in two loops could be explored mathematically.
  • Another participant questions the topology aspects and expresses uncertainty about the combined magnetic field when the rings are not aligned.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best methods for visualizing magnetic fields or the implications of their geometric properties. Multiple competing views on the use of formulas versus the Biot-Savart law and the complexity of magnetic fields inside conductors remain evident.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations regarding the influence of magnetic fields on currents and the complexity of calculating integrals, indicating that assumptions about the strength of fields and the alignment of loops may affect the discussion.

lavinia
Science Advisor
Messages
3,385
Reaction score
760
I have looked in vain on the web for pictures of magnetic field lines for multiple linked current loops.
I would be happy just to see a picture of the field lines for a simple Hopf link but somewhere there must be pictures for the Borromean rings and other more complex links - and also braids.

It would be even better if there was a a way to understand the Biot-Savart operator well enough to draw these field lines myself.

Any references are appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
As long as the rings are proper circular rings, you can use formulas for them instead of messing around with Biot-Savart. You "just" have to add the contributions from all rings, and then find some way to draw nice lines based on those calculated field vectors.
 
mfb said:
As long as the rings are proper circular rings, you can use formulas for them instead of messing around with Biot-Savart. You "just" have to add the contributions from all rings, and then find some way to draw nice lines based on those calculated field vectors.

Thanks. I was worried about the fields inside the conductors. The field of one current loop passes through the other. The total field should be continuous though maybe not differentiable since outside the current loops it is curl free - but inside it may not be.

It seems that for arbitrary sets of current loops one can take the magnetic fields of each separately then add them together.
 
Last edited:
lavinia said:
It seems that for arbitrary sets of current loops one can take the magnetic fields of each separately then add them together.
As long as the fields are not strong enough to influence the currents significantly.
The magnetic field inside can be more complicated. For DC currents, the influence of the ring where you are in should be roughly linear, starting at zero at the center and reaching the "outside" value (as given by the usual formulas) at the edge. This is not exact but it should give a good approximation. I guess you don't want to calculate a toroidal 3D integral of Biot-Savart...
 
mfb said:
I guess you don't want to calculate a toroidal 3D integral of Biot-Savart...

No but the integral could be instructive.

I am interested in the geometry of the fields and how they define the cohomology ring of the three sphere minus the two solid tori. For a single current loop, the answer is in the linking number.

For two current loops I thought that one could take two magnetic fields. One gets the second by reversing the direction of the current in one of the loops while keeping the other the same. One would then show (hopefully) that the dual 1 forms to these two fields form a basis for the first de Rham cohomology group. Their geometry would then determine whether their wedge product is cohomologous to zero.

For instance, in the case of two circular current loops of the same radius that are parallel to the XY-plane, the field lines lie in planes that contain the z-axis. So the wedge product must be zero on the boundary of either loop.
 
Last edited:
No idea about the topology stuff.
lavinia said:
For instance, in the case of two circular current loops of the same radius that are parallel to the XY-plane, the field lines lie in planes that contain the z-axis.
The individual lines yes, not sure about the combined magnetic field if the rings are not aligned (probably not).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
12K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
9K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K