Poisoned Trees: What One Fool Can Do

[nismaratwork]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/17/alabama.auburn.trees/index.html?hpt=T2

A man was arrested early Thursday and faces criminal mischief charges for allegedly applying a herbicide commonly used to kill trees and brush to landmark 130-year-old live oaks on the edge of the Auburn University campus in east-central Alabama, police said.

Harvey Updyke Jr. was taken into custody at the Auburn Police Department, Police Chief Tommy Dawson told reporters. He was being held in the Lee County Detention Facility in lieu of $50,000 bail, Dawson said. He will be charged with first-degree criminal mischief.

So, apparently this Rhodes Scholar decided to poison priceless live oaks over a sports revelry. Because he told this radio show 2 MONTHS after using this extremely effective tree-killer, those trees are likely doomed. To me, this is a microscopic view that illustrates the sheer ignorance that is at the core of so much casual cruelty. It's so very easy to destroy things, and so hard to preserve them, and how much do you want to bet that someone will be laughing that "tree-huggers" cried at a news conference.

Makes me sick.

 

[Evo]

What a jerk. I can't say more or I'd violate the guidelines for civility. And this wasn't even some young kid, he's 62 years old!

 

[nismaratwork]

What a jerk. I can't say more or I'd violate the guidelines for civility. And this wasn't even some young kid, he's 62 years old!

Yep, that was my reaction.

 

[turbo]

Yep, that was my reaction.

In the 60's we were in a mad fight to save Maine's elm trees from destruction by Dutch elm disease. Bingham's downtown and the University of Maine's beautiful Orono campus were horribly scarred by the loss of so many majestic trees. Nothing seemed to work. We had trees "tapped" and looking like sugar maples in the spring, except instead of removing sap, we were injecting compounds that we hoped would protect the elms from beetle-damage and/or the disease they carried. The organist in my college band was a horticulture major and the resident caretaker of the UMO greenhouse. He would be in tears to learn that someone had actually poisoned beautiful trees like that.

The city of Waterville was once known as "the Elm City" because of all the tall graceful elms lining its streets. You'd be hard-pressed to find a surviving elm today. Slow-motion damage, but just as devastating as a fire in the long term.

 

[czelaya]

When I first heard about this in the gym, about 3 hours, ago I wasn't too alarmed. However, as I walked out the gym I stopped to enjoy the beautiful weather we're having here in the south. I was admiring a set of beautiful trees, rustling in the wind for about 20 minutes.

It all of sudden hit me that this individual has destroyed a natural scene that countless people have enjoyed, and many will never admire. Not only has he destroyed a natural aritifact but a precious landscape that can't be easily recovered over a series of pathetic games.

 

[Destiny153]

It all of sudden hit me that this individual has destroyed a natural scene that countless people have enjoyed, and many will never admire. Not only has he destroyed a natural aritifact but a precious landscape that can't be easily recovered over a series of pathetic games.

Wow way to descirbe nature! though its all very true

 

[nismaratwork]

In the 60's we were in a mad fight to save Maine's elm trees from destruction by Dutch elm disease. Bingham's downtown and the University of Maine's beautiful Orono campus were horribly scarred by the loss of so many majestic trees. Nothing seemed to work. We had trees "tapped" and looking like sugar maples the spring, except instead of removing sap, we were injecting compounds that we hoped would protect the elms from beetle-damage and/or the disease they carried. The organist in my college band was a horticulture major and the resident caretaker of the UMO greenhouse. He would be in tears to learn that someone had actually poisoned beautiful trees like that.

The city of Waterville was once known as "the Elm City" because of all the tall graceful elms lining its streets. You'd be hard-pressed to find a surviving elm today. Slow-motion damage, but just as devastating as a fire in the long term.

It's terrible, but for one person to do so much damage so quickly... horrific.

@czelaya: Well said, sad, but well said.

 

[Proton Soup]

it's not ignorance, just meanness.

i'm not surprised that he called the Finebaum show to brag about it. Finebaum has been trolling the rednecks for years here. most don't take it too seriously, even though it is the state religion here, but some folks will get wound up like this.

 

[nismaratwork]

it's not ignorance, just meanness.

i'm not surprised that he called the Finebaum show to brag about it. Finebaum has been trolling the rednecks for years here. most don't take it too seriously, even though it is the state religion here, but some folks will get wound up like this.

He would have to be more than "mean" in my view to do this if he were genuinely aware of the impact he would have.

 

[Chi Meson]

This makes me very angry.

 

[Proton Soup]

He would have to be more than "mean" in my view to do this if he were genuinely aware of the impact he would have.

a good portion of the fans will be ticked off.

as far as the trees? sure, they have cultural significance. but as a resource, they're a dime a dozen down here. we knock 'em down to build malls and housing all the time.

 

[nismaratwork]

a good portion of the fans will be ticked off.

as far as the trees? sure, they have cultural significance. but as a resource, they're a dime a dozen down here. we knock 'em down to build malls and housing all the time.

I know... it's not as though he introduced the blight on American Chestnut... I'm just horrified by the sheer <series of curses in English, Hebrew, Russian, and a few other> of it.

Besides, there's something essentially disgusting about ANYONE, but especially a 67 year old man killing a tree that's made generations happy. It doesn't really matter if it made them happy for reasons I find silly... it was so... well you said it, it's mean.

@Chi Meson: I'm sorry that you're angry, but I'm glad this makes you angry.

 

[Jack21222]

Man, some of you people are going nuts over a few trees. I expect this kind of disgust reserved for people like Osama Bin Laden, not some guy killing trees.

 

[turbo]

My wife has only visited the deep south a couple of times with me. She was very impressed by the appearance of live-oaks. They are very dramatic-looking spreading trees compared to the "lean and mean" trees that can survive Maine's climate. When she saw this story on NBC news tonight, she was horrified. I didn't tell her about this thread or do a set-up of any kind. It was "wham!" and "how could someone do such a horrible thing?"

 

[turbo]

Man, some of you people are going nuts over a few trees. I expect this kind of disgust reserved for people like Osama Bin Laden, not some guy killing trees.

Trees? The trees are not the point. The point is that these particular trees were a focal point for school celebrations, and some idiot decided that he needed to take matters into his own hands and kill them to spite the supporters of a rival school. How sick is that?

 

[Jack21222]

Trees? The trees are not the point. The point is that these particular trees were a focal point for school celebrations, and some idiot decided that he needed to take matters into his own hands and kill them to spite the supporters of a rival school. How sick is that?

So? They'll plant new trees. Or buy them. It's not "sick" at all. Your average, workaday rapist is a thousand times more sickening than this person, maybe more, but I don't see people posting and flipping out about every single rape in this country every day.

 

[Evo]

So? They'll plant new trees. Or buy them. It's not "sick" at all. Your average, workaday rapist is a thousand times more sickening than this person, maybe more, but I don't see people posting and flipping out about every single rape in this country every day.

New trees won't reach that size in the lifetime of anyone here. The point is that it was a wasteful, spiteful, stupid thing to do because of a crazed sports rivalry.

 

[Zryn]

Are you saying that people shouldn't be sad about a hit and run driver who kills a cherished family pet for example, because rape is much more horrible?

This isn't really meant to be a contest.

 

[Loren Booda]

So? They'll plant new trees. Or buy them. It's not "sick" at all. Your average, workaday rapist is a thousand times more sickening than this person, maybe more, but I don't see people posting and flipping out about every single rape in this country every day.

I think that there is a relation between deriving pleasure from animal abuse and the mindset of someone who destroys living history as a thrill.

What if someone were to vandalize the Smithsonian? No harm done, just some dusty artifacts.

To those individuals raped it is a big deal.

 

[nismaratwork]

Trees? The trees are not the point. The point is that these particular trees were a focal point for school celebrations, and some idiot decided that he needed to take matters into his own hands and kill them to spite the supporters of a rival school. How sick is that?

Genuinely sick in my view.

 

[Jack21222]

New trees won't reach that size in the lifetime of anyone here. The point is that it was a wasteful, spiteful, stupid thing to do because of a crazed sports rivalry.

Agreed, but in addition to all of those things, it is minor. On the scale of evil from 1 to 10, with 1 being jaywalking and 10 being Hitler, this is a 3 at best.

 

[Evo]

Agreed, but in addition to all of those things, it is minor. On the scale of evil from 1 to 10, with 1 being jaywalking and 10 being Hitler, this is a 3 at best.

But we're not discussing other crimes, or how this crime compares to other crimes. Please do not derail the discussion.

 

[dlgoff]

New trees won't reach that size in the lifetime of anyone here. The point is that it was a wasteful, spiteful, stupid thing to do because of a crazed sports rivalry.

I saw a spill where trees couldn't get a start for years. I suppose if all the soil was replaced (half a city block) would have been okay.

 

[nismaratwork]

I saw a spill where trees couldn't get a start for years. I suppose if all the soil was replaced (half a city block) would have been okay.

Phew... it's already going to be a huge cost to clean this... apparently this 'rouge genius' used FIFTY times the concentration of this already (absurdly) effective herbacide. He's going to spend the rest of his life in and out of civil court because of this, if he's LUCKY.

 

[Proton Soup]

Finebaum in unapologetic.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/02/toomers_corner_tree_poisoning_1.html

 

[Jack21222]

But we're not discussing other crimes, or how this crime compares to other crimes. Please do not derail the discussion.

I AM talking about how this crime compares with other crimes, and that is ON topic. You have no basis to declare comparisons to other crimes off-limits. It's completely arbitrary on your part.

Killing trees is not a major crime. It's hardly worth mentioning. How you can say that statement is off-topic is beyond me.

 

[turbo]

I AM talking about how this crime compares with other crimes, and that is ON topic. You have no basis to declare comparisons to other crimes off-limits. It's completely arbitrary on your part.

Killing trees is not a major crime. It's hardly worth mentioning. How you can say that statement is off-topic is beyond me.

Catch a clue. If you were to kill my dog (with legal deniability so i didn't have any recourse, like dumping toxic anti-freeze all over my driveway), your action would still be reprehensible. If you were to poison the two apple trees near my front border, so my wife and I and friends could not enjoy the fruits, your action would be reprehensible. Do you not get this? The actions of sociopaths cannot be covered by excuses or misdirections.

 

[nismaratwork]

Finebaum in unapologetic.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/02/toomers_corner_tree_poisoning_1.html

Good, that just means the judge will drag him across a field of broken glass.

 

[Jack21222]

Catch a clue. If you were to kill my dog (with legal deniability so i didn't have any recourse, like dumping toxic anti-freeze all over my driveway), your action would still be reprehensible. If you were to poison the two apple trees near my front border, so my wife and I and friends could not enjoy the fruits, your action would be reprehensible. Do you not get this? The actions of sociopaths cannot be covered by excuses or misdirections.

Nowhere did I ever say his actions were right. What he did was quite clearly wrong. What I'm saying is it's nowhere near as wrong as a dozen other things that you don't care about at all. Life isn't a binary thing. Just because mass-murder and killing a tree are both "wrong" doesn't mean it makes sense to have the same kind of visceral reaction to both.

This was a property crime. Fine the man and put him on probation, and let's all move on with our lives.

 

[nismaratwork]

OK... I'm going to go out on a limb here (yes, just said that):

Jack... you recently lost someone you cared about, so I completely understand why a dead tree of purely sentimental value would not faze you right now. By the same token, maybe that would be the case anytime, but from what I've read of your posts, that's not the case.

You're missing a few basics here that I don't believe you normally would: This chemical is illegal to use in the manner that he did, and the concentration he had may not have been legal without a license. His application of it to the soil may have effects beyond the tree: this is a NASTY thing, Spike-8; you don't apply it without warning flags for one. Using such a high concentration without warning is truly unwise, and if a pet, or a baby or someone else with Pica ate that dirt... badness.

There's an element of depraved indifference here that, if harm has been done to a person or pet, he's going to be facing legal penalties for. Beyond that, the decontamination of the soil, given that 2 MONTHS passed between applying the Spike and "confessing" to that radio station... well... that decon is going to be expensive.

As property crimes go, this is an exceptionally short-sighted one that may still go beyond simple property crime.

Note that my case above lacks any sentimentality for the tree (which I do feel); there is a rational argument for why this man is dangerous.

 

[Evo]

Nowhere did I ever say his actions were right. What he did was quite clearly wrong. What I'm saying is it's nowhere near as wrong as a dozen other things that you don't care about at all. Life isn't a binary thing. Just because mass-murder and killing a tree are both "wrong" doesn't mean it makes sense to have the same kind of visceral reaction to both.

This was a property crime. Fine the man and put him on probation, and let's all move on with our lives.

Obviously it matters to the people discussing the issue in this thread. You've had your say, now let's get back on topic.

 

[jobyts]

You've had your say, now let's get back on topic.

Evo, can you elaborate where exactly Jack was off topic. I would call it derailing the topic if he was keep talking one some other very specific crimes. He just compared this crime with other crimes in general.

Jack is just someone who do not share the same sentiments as you and most others in this thread. But his comments are not off topic.

 

[Evo]

Evo, can you elaborate where exactly Jack was off topic. I would call it derailing the topic if he was keep talking one some other very specific crimes. He just compared this crime with other crimes in general.

Jack is just someone who do not share the same sentiments as you and most others in this thread. But his comments are not off topic.

See my post #22. If you wish to discuss it, PM me, let's not continue disrupting the thread.

 

[Newai]

Also sucks for any animals that called it "home."

 

[nismaratwork]

Evo, can you elaborate where exactly Jack was off topic. I would call it derailing the topic if he was keep talking one some other very specific crimes. He just compared this crime with other crimes in general.

Jack is just someone who do not share the same sentiments as you and most others in this thread. But his comments are not off topic.

Taken 'to the absurd' that logic is not feasible, and doesn't address an issue that, as the OP, I'm uniquely able to speak to. This isn't about the crime committed as much as Proton so accurately identified, the mean nature, ignorance, and spite of it all.

Taken on face value, how do you qualify the impact of crime? If you can, then please tell me which is worse:

Murdering 50 grown women for sexual/sadistic pleasure.
Murdering 1 child for the same reason.
---
Running over your pet accidentally.
Running over your pet intentionally.
---
Cutting power, including backups to a major hospital.
Cutting power, including backups, to life support for specific people in that hospital.
---
Stealing a rose-bush
Killing the same rose-bush.

edit: This is IN ADDITION to the point that we have no way knowing who are what has been exposed to these extraordinary concentrations of Spike-8[0DF]. The most likely victims are children (oral contact, hygiene, playing on the ground) and pets/animals. It is a "moderately" toxic herbicide, and long term exposure is not the greatest if you enjoy having a pancreas.

I'd add... tebuthiuron (spike) is NOT a joke... it's not a pesticide, but its still no joke. This man dumped it in LIQUID form, and we'd just better hope that he knew what he was doing. Improper mixing, even with water in a dirty vessel, can be a very bad idea. I'd add, runoff poses a known danger to aquatic life, and that's in the context of PROPER use and application, with notice.

 

[fourier jr]

He was born & Florida & was a Texas ranger & doesn't seem to know anybody on the Alabama team, so I wonder why he's such a fan of U of Alabama. He even named his kids "Crimson" & "Bear" after the Alabama colours & a former coach's nickname.

 

[nismaratwork]

He was born & Florida & was a Texas ranger & doesn't seem to know anybody on the Alabama team, so I wonder why he's such a fan of U of Alabama. He even named his kids "Crimson" & "Bear" after the Alabama colours & a former coach's nickname.

GORK. Maybe he's just mean, and the kind of guy who needs to "fit in". It would explain why he thought that his gloating would impress "his side". Such a fool.

 

[fourier jr]

he said there was an incident back in 1983 when the former Alabama coach died (Bear something) & the Auburn fans tp'ed the trees in celebration (a story nobody can back up btw). They also put one of their stars' jerseys on some statue of an Alabama player, so I think in his mind he's retaliating for those things. Such a stupid thing to do, especially phoning the radio station to give himself away, because now he's looking at 10 years in jail. One http://www.ajc.com/sports/auburn-tree-killer-the-841586.html I read said he might face federal charges too (not sure what, maybe EPA related?).

 

[nismaratwork]

he said there was an incident back in 1983 when the former Alabama coach died (Bear something) & the Auburn fans tp'ed the trees in celebration (a story nobody can back up btw). They also put one of their stars' jerseys on some statue of an Alabama player, so I think in his mind he's retaliating for those things. Such a stupid thing to do, especially phoning the radio station to give himself away, because now he's looking at 10 years in jail, & one http://www.ajc.com/sports/auburn-tree-killer-the-841586.html I read said he might face federal charges too (not sure what, maybe EPA related?).

Indeed, and then he's going to face enough civil suits to ensure that his paycheck is so heavily garnished, he'll be eating it for nutrition.

 

[pergradus]

This is why I hate sports.

 

[OmCheeto]

As one who was born in, and lives in, the land of "more tree's than you can imagine", killing trees for fun, or spite, or recognition, is sacrilege.

I've only killed mine, because they were so huge, they have, on occasion, tried to kill me.

 

[mugaliens]

Here is an opinion from someone who is NOT a tree-hugger:

1. Less than 10% of old-growth trees remain intact here in the U.S. I think it's down to less than 7%, in fact. I say protect them at all costs. If some billion-dollar exec can't make his new desk from an old-growth tree, screw him.

2. Renewable forests comprise more than 90% of all forests here in the U.S., and they've been grown like crops as assuredly as wheat. The only different is the length of the growing cycle.

3. I'd like to see 20% of the land set aside for non-harvesting, and I would like to see those areas allowed to grow into old-growth forests, over time.

4. Anyone who poisons trees should be seen and considered a "limited effect" bio-terrorist," and prosecuted accordingly. That's just sick!

On a more personal note, I spent approximately 160 days over 11 years waterskiing on a lake in Florida. There was a tree there under which we usually camped throughout the day (if we were the first there, and given my Dad's proclivity to wake up earlier than anyone else), we usually managed to arrive around 6am! Perhaps 7am. Whatever. It was shortly after sunrise, and we were almost always the first on site, the first to hit the water, the first to waterski, and the first to enjoy a wonderful breakfast of simple toast, eggs, and sausage cooked by my Mom, about the time others started arriving.

Google Maps says http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl"is the tree. I'll check back later to confirm their URL is actually pinpointing the spot.

I grew up under the shade of that tree. I revisited it in the late 90s, and it was still there. On Google Earth, to date, it's still there. If I could afford to put a huge plaque around that tree which states why that tree should be preserved, I would.

That doesn't guarantee squat, but if any of you have any pull with Kingsley Lake or Camp Blanding, please note that tree holds memories for hundreds of us, if not thousands of us over the years.

 

[nismaratwork]

Here is an opinion from someone who is NOT a tree-hugger:

1. Less than 10% of old-growth trees remain intact here in the U.S. I think it's down to less than 7%, in fact. I say protect them at all costs. If some billion-dollar exec can't make his new desk from an old-growth tree, screw him.

2. Renewable forests comprise more than 90% of all forests here in the U.S., and they've been grown like crops as assuredly as wheat. The only different is the length of the growing cycle.

3. I'd like to see 20% of the land set aside for non-harvesting, and I would like to see those areas allowed to grow into old-growth forests, over time.

4. Anyone who poisons trees should be seen and considered a "limited effect" bio-terrorist," and prosecuted accordingly. That's just sick!

On a more personal note, I spent approximately 160 days over 11 years waterskiing on a lake in Florida. There was a tree there under which we usually camped throughout the day (if we were the first there, and given my Dad's proclivity to wake up earlier than anyone else), we usually managed to arrive around 6am! Perhaps 7am. Whatever. It was shortly after sunrise, and we were almost always the first on site, the first to hit the water, the first to waterski, and the first to enjoy a wonderful breakfast of simple toast, eggs, and sausage cooked by my Mom, about the time others started arriving.

Google Maps says http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl"is the tree. I'll check back later to confirm their URL is actually pinpointing the spot.

I grew up under the shade of that tree. I revisited it in the late 90s, and it was still there. On Google Earth, to date, it's still there. If I could afford to put a huge plaque around that tree which states why that tree should be preserved, I would.

That doesn't guarantee squat, but if any of you have any pull with Kingsley Lake or Camp Blanding, please note that tree holds memories for hundreds of us, if not thousands of us over the years.

I'd add... 130 years that tree has been there, alive. That link to the past may seem trite to some (not you, clearly), but we're human... we NEED props. If this guy pissed on the Liberty Bell, I think the outrage would be more clear, even though the damage would be zilch.

Still, he can only hope for a plea-bargain... anything less and I suspect he'll face serious jail time. As a judge, I'd put him up for 2 years (which is nothing with good behavior and parole), and enough community service to kill the spiteful old bastard. It's the civil suits I'm looking forward to, individual AND state. His life, for all intents and purposes, is now over.

 

[dlgoff]

Auburn fans rally for famous trees

I don't think a rally is going to do much good.

The trees' plight -- university scientists say its doubtful they can survive the poisoning with a harsh herbicide -- has even helped bind the deep-seated rivalry between Auburn fans and its cross-state arch rival, the University of Alabama.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/19/alabama.auburn.trees/"

 

[fourier jr]

I don't know why I thought of this story but there's still signs of life

http://www2.oanow.com/news/2012/mar/08/toomers-oaks-producing-new-leaves-still-ailing-ar-3374769/

 

[fourier jr]

crazy, seems to be a pattern with these two teams:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...shooting-over-alabama-loss-to-auburn/3819905/

Sister: Deadly shooting was over Alabama loss

The Associated Press 7:50 p.m. EST December 2, 2013

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — A woman charged with killing a fellow Alabama fan after the end of last weekend's Iron Bowl football game was angry that the victim and others didn't seem upset over the Crimson Tide's loss to archrival Auburn, said the sister of the slain woman.Adrian Laroze Briskey, 28, was charged Monday with murder in the killing of 36-year-old Michelle Shepherd.

Hoover police Capt. Jim Coker said both Birmingham women were Alabama fans and at the same party for the annual game between intrastate rivals. With no time left on the clock, Auburn returned a missed Crimson Tide field goal more than 100 yards for a 34-28 victory, dashing any hopes of Alabama playing for a third straight national championship.

I remember seeing that play on tv but didn't put two & two together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsupViGHy_0