Potential energy of a force vector

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the potential energy associated with a conservative force vector expressed in terms of its components. Participants explore the integration of vector components, the formulation of potential energy as a scalar function, and the implications of choosing paths for evaluation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about finding potential energy from a conservative force vector and expresses uncertainty about integrating vectors.
  • Another participant clarifies that potential energy is a scalar function defined by a system of partial differential equations related to the force components.
  • A participant proposes integrating the components of the force to find expressions for potential energy in terms of x, y, and z.
  • Discussion includes the method of choosing a reference point for potential energy and the evaluation of integrals along chosen paths.
  • Participants discuss the importance of constants of integration and how to derive a complete expression for potential energy.
  • There is a suggestion to evaluate the product of the force and the differential path element to perform the integral, with emphasis on the path chosen.
  • One participant expresses confusion about selecting path segments for integration, while another suggests that breaking the path into segments may simplify the evaluation.
  • Participants acknowledge the need to satisfy conditions for the constants of integration and how to derive the final expression for potential energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the best method for choosing path segments for integration, and participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the integration process and the role of constants. The discussion remains exploratory with multiple viewpoints on how to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of initial conditions for evaluating constants of integration, which may affect the formulation of the potential energy function.

element1945
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If F is a conservative force, written in terms of a vector:

F = kx i + ky j + kz k where k is a constant,

How do i find the potential energy?

I know how to use partial derivatives, but I am not sure how to integrate a vector. Please Help.
 
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I think you have somewhat the wrong perspective on this.

By definition, the potential is a scalar function V(x,y,z) such that
dV/dx = Fx
dV/dy = Fy
dV/dz = Fz
where those are all partial derivatives, not ordinary derivatives.
Finding V(x,y,z) is a matter of solving this system of partial differential equations, that is finding a function that has the correct partial derivatives.
 
so i just integrate the components;

Ux = k/2 x^2

Uy = k/2 y^2

Uz = k/2 z^2

how do i put U as a scalar function?
 
element1945 said:
How do i find the potential energy?

1. Choose the point [itex]{\vec r}_0 = x_0 \hat i + y_0 \hat j + z_0 \hat j[/itex] at which you want the potential energy to be zero.

2. Choose a path between [itex]{\vec r}_0[/itex] and [itex]\vec r = x \hat i + y \hat j + z \hat j[/itex] that makes it easy to evaluate the integral

[tex]U = - \int^{\vec r}_{{\vec r}_0}{\vec F \cdot d \vec s}[/tex]

where [itex]d \vec s = dx \hat i + dy \hat j + dz \hat k[/itex]. The force is conservative, so you should get the same result no matter which path you choose. There are no wrong paths, only easier and harder ones. :wink:

Hint: Often it's best to break up the path into segments, each of which is individually easy to do, rather than use a single "straight-line" path that gives you a messier integral.

3. Evaluate the product [itex]\vec F \cdot d \vec s[/itex] and perform the integral. If you chose a path in segments, you'll probably have to do this step separately for each segment. Then, of course, you find the sum for all the segments.
 
Thanks a lot, but something that i don't understand is how to choose the segments of the path... can i just evaluate the indefinite integral?
 
When you integrated the first part, you should have written
U = (1/2)*k*x^2 + f(y,z)
From the second,
U = (1/2)*k*y^2+g(x,z)
and from the third,
U = (1/2)*k*z^2 + h(x,y)
Then you ask yourself how to satisfy all of these and see what will do the job.
 
yeah i forgot the constants...but i thought i wouldn't need them...because i don't have initial conditions to solve for them. thanks
 
ohhhhhhhh i just need to derive these equations and substitute the constants and find U (x, y, z) Thank you so much guys!
 
U (x , y , z) = (1/2)*k*x^2 + (1/2)*k*y^2 + (1/2)*k*z^2 + C I am i correct?
 
  • #10
Well, you answer the question. Do the partial derivatives give the force components?

As you observed, you don't have the conditions to evaluate C, so you can make it zero anywhere that is convenient (and meaningful) for the problem.
 
  • #11
Thank you very much.
 

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