Power flow outside a wire - how close?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of power flow outside of wires in electrical circuits, specifically examining the distribution of power as a function of distance from the wire. It involves theoretical considerations using Poynting vectors and references to existing literature on the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how close the power flow is to a wire in a DC circuit with low resistance, specifically asking about the distribution of power versus perpendicular distance from the wire.
  • Another participant summarizes that the Poynting flow of energy extends to a large volume around wires, referencing a paper that visualizes this flow in electric circuits and suggesting that energy spreads out from the source to fill the space around the circuit.
  • A participant comments on the referenced undergraduate research paper, expressing appreciation for the idea presented.
  • One participant challenges the interpretation of the analysis, questioning whether power lines transmit energy across distances and noting the absence of a scale for power density in the referenced figures.
  • Another participant agrees with the skepticism about energy transmission from power lines, emphasizing that energy lost as heat in the wires must be considered and pointing out the misstatement of units related to power density.
  • There is a mention of the need for a color scale in the referenced plot to better understand the power flow, suggesting that without it, only rough estimates of power per unit-area can be made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of power flow from wires, with some supporting the idea of significant energy spread while others contest this notion, particularly regarding the practical implications and the absence of clear measurements in the referenced analysis. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made in the referenced analysis, particularly concerning the idealized models used and the lack of specific measurements or scales in the figures presented.

Joseph M. Zias
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TL;DR
power flow vs distance from wire
For at least a couple of decades a plethora of papers have presented power flow (via Poynting vectors) to be outside the wires. Wire resistance does cause some power to flow into the surface and cause heating, however. Given a DC circuit with low resistance wire I question how close to the wire is the power flow? Suppose a 10 volt source to 10 AWG wire with a 10 ohm resistor some distance away. What is the distribution of power vs perpendicular distance from the wire? So far, I have not seen this addressed.
 
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Joseph M. Zias said:
TL;DR Summary: power flow vs distance from wire
The Poynting flow of energy ##\vec{S}=\mu_{0}^{-1}\vec{E}\times\vec{B}## due to electric circuits generally extends to a rather large volume around the wires. This is can be seen from the figures in: Morris & Styer-Visualizing Poynting vector energy flow in electric circuits . To simplify the analysis to a 2D model over a finite region, the authors consider circuits consisting, not of conducting wires, but rather infinitely-long, conducting, hollow square cylinders with discontinuities on the boundary that represent voltage sources and resistances. Here's an example of the Poynting flow due to a battery connected to two resistors in series:
1687474535693.png

Evidently, the flow of energy spreads out from the source (the battery) to fill the space enclosed by the circuit and then converges into the sinks (the resistors). Of course, the details of 3D Poynting flow in the vicinity of a circuit of wires is more involved, but we can still anticipate that the lines of flow spread well away from the wires to fill both the interior and exterior of the circuit.
 
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I note this is an undergrad research paper from 2000. Way to go Oberlin College. Great idea.
 
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So, the analysis given suggest the power lines at the top of the poles are transmitting energy across the street? I will look into the reference given but at present I don't see any scale of watts/cm^3 at a given distance.
 
Joseph M. Zias said:
So, the analysis given suggest the power lines at the top of the poles are transmitting energy across the street?
Not true, at least to the extent that we can ignore the energy that's lost as heat in the power lines. Per the plot, no energy streamlines begin or end on the "power lines" themselves (i.e., the outer box, which is modeled as a perfect conductor), so no energy flows between any of the (perfect) conductors.
I don't see any scale of watts/cm^3 at a given distance.
(Note that your units here are misstated because they denote power per unit-volume. The Poynting vector tangent to the streamlines has units of power per unit-area or ##W/m^{2}## in SI units.) There are no units shown on the plot, but the text of Morris & Styer states:
1687662213447.png

so the spatial scale of the plot is established. But lacking something like a color scale that distinguishes the power flow in individual streamlines, the most we can say is that an overall power ##I^{2}R=0.5\text {W}## is delivered across space via 15 streamlines from the battery to each resistor. From that, depending on where you draw your cross-section and the distance between streamlines, from the plot you can guesstimate the average power flowing per unit-area.
 
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