Pressure and the Young-Laplace Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Young-Laplace equation in fluid dynamics, specifically in the context of a rotating cylinder with gravity affecting the fluid meniscus profile. Participants explore when to consider surface tension forces relative to pressure in fluid systems, and the mathematical formulations involved in deriving the pressure distribution and meniscus shape.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant solved a problem involving a fluid in a rotating cylinder and found a parabolic meniscus but did not use the Young-Laplace equation, questioning when it should be applied.
  • Another participant suggests that a dimensionless group could indicate when surface tension forces are negligible, mentioning the Bond and Capillary numbers.
  • There is a discussion on whether both the Bond and Capillary numbers need to be small to justify the application of the Young-Laplace equation.
  • A participant shares their solution for the meniscus height and expresses confusion about the implications of non-constant curvature on pressure distribution.
  • Another participant proposes deriving a differential force balance on the free surface without using the Young-Laplace equation, aiming to express the pressure as a function of radial location and surface shape.
  • One participant introduces a new dimensionless group, the McCraney number, to assess the significance of surface tension effects in the system.
  • There are inquiries about the formulation of unit tangent and normal vectors to the free surface, with participants refining their expressions based on parameterization.
  • Participants discuss the integration of surface tension and pressure forces, with some corrections made regarding the treatment of the pressure force in relation to the geometry of the system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and conditions for applying the Young-Laplace equation, with no consensus reached on the implications of curvature on pressure distribution or the significance of the dimensionless groups discussed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific assumptions regarding fluid behavior, the definitions of the dimensionless groups, and the unresolved mathematical steps in integrating forces over the free surface.

  • #31
joshmccraney said:
$$-\sigma\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)+s_0^2\rho g Z(S)+\sigma\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)_{S=0}=s_0^3\frac{\rho \omega^2R^2(S)}{2}$$
Is this what you had in mind?
Yes. Now divide the equation by ##\rho \omega^2 s^3_0##. What do you get?
 
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  • #32
Chestermiller said:
Yes. Now divide the equation by ##\rho \omega^2 s^3_0##. What do you get?
$$\frac{\sigma}{\rho \omega^2 s^3_0}\left[\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)_{S=0}-\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)\right]+\frac{g }{\omega^2 s_0}Z(S)=\frac{R^2(S)}{2}$$ Starting to look like the "McCraney number".
 
  • #33
joshmccraney said:
$$\frac{\sigma}{\rho \omega^2 s^3_0}\left[\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)_{S=0}-\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)\right]+\frac{g }{\omega^2 s_0}Z(S)=\frac{R^2(S)}{2}$$ Starting to look like the "McCraney number".
Good. Now, there are a couple of ways to proceed further with the dimensional analysis. One way is to now set ##s_0=g/\omega^2##, so that the coefficient of Z is unity. What does this give you?
 
  • #34
Chestermiller said:
Good. Now, there are a couple of ways to proceed further with the dimensional analysis. One way is to now set ##s_0=g/\omega^2##, so that the coefficient of Z is unity. What does this give you?
Awesome, this is perfect. Thanks so much!
$$M\left[\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)_{S=0}-\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)\right]+Z(S)=\frac{R^2(S)}{2}$$
 
  • #35
joshmccraney said:
Awesome, this is perfect. Thanks so much!
$$M\left[\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)_{S=0}-\left(\frac{\sin\phi}{R}+\frac{d\phi}{dS}\right)\right]+Z(S)=\frac{R^2(S)}{2}$$
The important thing is to assimilate this kind of methodology for reducing the equations for a system to dimensionless form.
 
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  • #36
Chestermiller said:
Good. Now, there are a couple of ways to proceed further with the dimensional analysis. One way is to now set ##s_0=g/\omega^2##, so that the coefficient of Z is unity. What does this give you?

Chestermiller said:
The important thing is to assimilate this kind of methodology for reducing the equations for a system to dimensionless form.
I couldn't agree more. How did you know to scale ##Z## with ##R^2##, which is to say what to set as ##O(1)##?
 
  • #37
joshmccraney said:
I couldn't agree more. How did you know to scale ##Z## with ##R^2##, which is to say what to set as ##O(1)##?
I wanted the terms for the case of zero surface tension to be preserved in the limit of zero surface tension.
 
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