Problem of a tank with trapezoidal section.

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a tank with a trapezoidal cross-section, measuring 20 feet in length and 10 feet in height, with varying widths at the bottom and top. An orifice at the bottom is specified, and the task is to calculate the time required for the water level to drop from full to a height of 6 feet.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss relationships between the width and height of the trapezoidal tank, employing geometric reasoning and differential equations to model the flow of water through the orifice.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring various interpretations of the problem, including the setup of equations and the implications of different reference points for measuring height. Some guidance has been offered regarding the consistency of measurement origins.

Contextual Notes

There are discussions about the validity of setting reference points for height in relation to the tank's geometry, as well as the implications of these choices on the equations used in the calculations.

Queren Suriano
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Homework Statement


A deposit of 20 feet long and 10 feet high, has a width of 8 feet at the bottom and 18 feet at the top. In the bottom is an orifice an area of 24 in2 and discharge coefficient of 0.60. If the tank is full calculate the time required for the lower level 6 feet. Consider full contraction of the jet.[/B]

Homework Equations


upload_2015-8-22_19-29-33.png


a= area of the orifice
c= discharge coefficient

The Attempt at a Solution


I have found a relationship between the variable X (width) and the variable H (height). I prolongate the sides of the trapeze until have a triangle. 18 / 8 = Y / (Y-10), where Y is the height from the vertix of the triangle to the bottom of the triangle. So I have that Y=18 ft. After that I did another relation of triangles: x/18 = H/(Y=18)-------x=H

I applied the diferential equation dt= 24.922 H ^(1/2) dH; with height limits from 18 feet to 14 feet.
But I don't know if it's right or not
 
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Queren Suriano said:

Homework Statement


A deposit of 20 feet long and 10 feet high, has a width of 8 feet at the bottom and 18 feet at the top. In the bottom is an orifice an area of 24 in2 and discharge coefficient of 0.60. If the tank is full calculate the time required for the lower level 6 feet. Consider full contraction of the jet.[/B]

Homework Equations


View attachment 87699

a= area of the orifice
c= discharge coefficient

The Attempt at a Solution


I have found a relationship between the variable X (width) and the variable H (height). I prolongate the sides of the trapeze until have a triangle. 18 / 8 = Y / (Y-10), where Y is the height from the vertix of the triangle to the bottom of the triangle. So I have that Y=18 ft. After that I did another relation of triangles: x/18 = H/(Y=18)-------x=H

I applied the diferential equation dt= 24.922 H ^(1/2) dH; with height limits from 18 feet to 14 feet.
But I don't know if it's right or not
Show us your equation for A(h).

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
Show us your equation for A(h).

Chet
I have surface area =20 H, because the length of 20 is constant. And from the relation between triangles I know that X=H
 
Queren Suriano said:
I have surface area =20 H, because the length of 20 is constant. And from the relation between triangles I know that X=H
The width increases by 10 ft as the height increases by 10 ft, but you can't set h=0 at 8 feet below the base of the container. That would make your ##ac\sqrt{2gh}## wrong.
 
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I get 20(8+h).
 
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haruspex said:
The width increases by 10 ft as the height increases by 10 ft, but you can't set h=0 at 8 feet below the base of the container. That would make your ##ac\sqrt{2gh}## wrong.
haruspex said:
The width increases by 10 ft as the height increases by 10 ft, but you can't set h=0 at 8 feet below the base of the container. That would make your ##ac\sqrt{2gh}## wrong.

I think I understand, but there are some exercises in which is valid to take the zero down or away from the element considered. For example in this exercise (strain energy) and I only integrate in the real part of the element. So when will know whether it is valid or not take away the element origin?

upload_2015-8-23_9-9-54.png


upload_2015-8-23_9-11-30.png
 
Chestermiller said:
I get 20(8+h).
Thank you, I got this too, when I put the origin in the base of the tank
 
Queren Suriano said:
Thank you, I got this too, when I put the origin in the base of the tank
I got this by just fitting a straight line between between (0,8) and (10,18).

Chet
 
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Queren Suriano said:
I think I understand, but there are some exercises in which is valid to take the zero down or away from the element considered. For example in this exercise (strain energy) and I only integrate in the real part of the element. So when will know whether it is valid or not take away the element origin?
It's valid as long as you are consistent. Your problem was that in different equations you were measuring h from different origins.
 
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  • #10
haruspex said:
It's valid as long as you are consistent. Your problem was that in different equations you were measuring h from different origins.
Thank you
 

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