Problem understanding the shear force integral.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the shear force integral related to a hut subjected to wind pressure. Participants explore the mathematical formulation and physical interpretation of forces acting on a cylindrical surface, particularly focusing on the integration limits and the parametrization of the surface area.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of multiplying by r in the shear force integral and the choice of integration limits from 0 to π instead of π/2.
  • Another participant explains that the multiplication by r is related to the surface element on the hut and clarifies the presence of underpressure on one side of the hut.
  • There is a discussion about the parametrization of the surface and the transition from the surface element dS to the angular coordinate dθ.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the parametrization approach, seeking alternative methods using rectangular coordinates.
  • Participants debate the calculation of the area of the surface element and its implications for the force acting on the hut.
  • There is a clarification regarding the physical meaning of multiplying an infinitesimal area by pressure to obtain force, with references to the direction of the pressure force relative to the surface normal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the parametrization of the surface and the interpretation of the integration limits. While some explanations are provided, no consensus is reached on the best approach to solve the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of surface parametrization and the implications of pressure variations on the forces acting on the hut. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions and interpretations regarding the physical setup and mathematical formulation.

FabledIntg
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The problem is to determine the shearforce Q on the hut near the ground. This is not a homework or anything like that, I'm just studying for an exam and this problem is in the book "Engineering Mechanics, Statics" By Meriam Kraige.

Shear force.PNG


On another forum, I found this:

Shear 2.PNG


I understand the part in the parenthesis in the first integral, it's just the all the horizontal components of P summed. But why multiply with r? And why go from 0 to π when the wind only generates pressure against the right side of the hut, which goes from 0 to π/2?
 

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FabledIntg said:
But why multiply with r?
It is part of the surface element on the hut. The force on a small surface element is ##-p \, d\vec S##, where ##d\vec S## is the directed surface element.

Note that the force quoted is the force per length in the direction that goes into the image. (Note that the units do not match otherwise.)

FabledIntg said:
And why go from 0 to π when the wind only generates pressure against the right side of the hut, which goes from 0 to π/2?
This is not true. There is an overpressure generated on the right side but there is an underpressure generated on the left side. This leads to an absence of force in the direction to the right relative to the case where the pressure is homogeneous.
 
Last edited:
So what is $d\vec{S}$? How do you go from $d\vec{S}$ to $d\theta$?

Seems LaTeX doesn't work like this.
 
As usual in vector calculus.
$$
\newcommand{\dd}[2]{\frac{\partial #1}{\partial #2}}
d\vec S = \dd{\vec x}{\theta} \times \dd{\vec x}{z} d\theta \, dz
$$
since the cabin surface is a half cylinder that can be parametrised by ##\theta## and ##z## (##z## being the direction into the image). This evaluates to
$$
d\vec S = \vec e_r r\, d\theta\, dz.
$$
Since you are looking at the force per length, the ##dz## is the corresponding length in the ##z## direction that you need to divide by.
 
Okay thanks for your answers. But we haven't learned parametrisation of surfaces yet. Is there another way of solving this problem with rectangular coordinates?
 
Just consider a small surface between ##\theta## and ##\theta + d\theta##. The area of that surface is clearly ##r\, d\theta \, dz##. The force is in the normal direction of the surface, which gives you a cosine for the component in the ##x##-direction (the other cosine comes from the pressure variation itself).
 
I really don't see how the area is clearly r*dθ*dz. I suppose you're referring to the surface area of the body, and not the side where the windows of the hut are. If I choose an are that is generated by going from θ to dθ, The surface area is the circumference from θ and dθ multiplied by the length of the hut in z-direction.
 
FabledIntg said:
I suppose you're referring to the surface area of the body, and not the side where the windows of the hut are.
Yes, this is where the force is acting.

FabledIntg said:
The surface area is the circumference from θ and dθ multiplied by the length of the hut in z-direction.
So what is the length of the circle element going from ##\theta## to ##\theta + d\theta##?
Note! It is from ##\theta## to ##\theta + d\theta## - not ##\theta## to ##d\theta##!
 
Ah, I see now. That should be r*dθ. The x-component of P is Px = P0*cos2(θ). Do I now need to sum all of these x-components?
 
  • #10
Yes, which is just performing the original integral.
 
  • #11
But I'm essentially multiplying r*dθ*L with P0*cos^2(θ), and then integrating from 0 to π. Can you explain why I have to do this multiplication? What does it mean in a physical sense? Multiplying an infinitesimal area with a force.
 
  • #12
Because the force is the area times the pressure so the force on the area element you just described is ##-p \vec e_r r \, d\theta\, L##, where ##\vec e_r## is the unit normal of the roof. The pressure is ##p_0 \cos(\theta)##, the other cosine - as already stated - comes from taking the component of the force in the ##x##-direction.
 
  • #13
Perfect! I understand now! One last thing, why did you choose to have the force negative? Is it simply because the x-axis is negative if going to the left, and y-axis negative if going down?
 
  • #14
Because the pressure force on the roof from the outside is in the opposite direction of the surface normal if it is chosen to point out of the roof (the pressure force points into the roof).
 
  • #15
Great, thank you for your help sir!
 

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