Problem with a basic theorem in Wald's GR book

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of a theorem from Wald's General Relativity book regarding the uniqueness of a derivative operator that satisfies metric compatibility. Participants explore the implications of using different derivative operators and the uniqueness of the Levi-Civita connection in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assertion that the expression for the connection coefficients is "manifestly unique," arguing that the use of an arbitrary derivative operator leads to non-invariance in the expression.
  • Another participant suggests that while the derivative operator is arbitrary, it should be treated as fixed throughout the proof, implying that different operators would yield different connection coefficients.
  • Some participants discuss the uniqueness of the Levi-Civita connection, noting it is unique in being both metric compatible and torsion-free, while others challenge this by suggesting that different connections could lead to different coefficients.
  • A participant expresses concern that the uniqueness issue is critical for the theorem's usefulness, particularly when Wald uses the ordinary derivative operator to derive the Levi-Civita connection, questioning its chart independence.
  • Another participant argues that there is only one set of coefficients that will yield a metric compatible connection, regardless of the starting connection, suggesting that the uniqueness is preserved.
  • Some participants note that Wald's approach does not consider transformation properties, emphasizing that the focus on transformation properties may be overstated if the derivative operator has the correct properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the uniqueness of the connection coefficients and the implications of using different derivative operators. There is no consensus on whether Wald's proof adequately addresses the uniqueness issue, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the discussion is framed within Wald's approach, which is described as coordinate independent, and some express uncertainty about the implications of transformation properties in this context.

facenian
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1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known
I don't understand the proof of the following theorem:

Theorem 3.1.1
Let ##g_{ab}## be a metric. Then there exists a unique derivative operator ##\nabla_a## satisfying ##\nabla_a\,g_{bc}=0##

2. Homework Equations

After some manipulations it is found that:
C^c_{ab}=\frac{1}{2}g^{cd}\{\overline{\nabla }_a\,g_{bd}+\overline{\nabla }_b\,g_{ad}-\overline{\nabla }_d\,g_{ab} \}
At this point Wald asserts: " This choice of ##C^c_{ab}## solves equation ##\nabla_a\,g_{bc}=0## and it is manifestly unique, which completes the proof.""

The Attempt at a Solution


The problem is that ##\overline{\nabla}_a## is an arbitrary derivative operator and the expresion
\overline{\nabla }_a\,g_{bd}+\overline{\nabla }_b\,g_{ad}-\overline{\nabla }_d\,g_{ab}\ldots (1)
is not "manifestly unique".
In fact, replacing ##\overline{\nabla}_a## by another ##\nabla_a## using
\overline{\nabla}_a\,g_{bc}=\nabla_a g_{bc}-C'^d_{ab}\,g_{dc}-C'^d_{ac}\,g_{bd}
it is found that eq. (1) is not invariant with respect the derivative operator, i.e.
\overline{\nabla }_a\,g_{bd}+\overline{\nabla }_b\,g_{ad}-\overline{\nabla }_d\,g_{ab} \neq <br /> \nabla_a\,g_{bd}+\nabla_b\,g_{ad}-\nabla_d\,g_{ab}
 
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While ##\bar \nabla## is arbitrary, it should be considered a fixed derivative operator throughout. You fixed it in the beginning. Then you found out what the C coefficients were given that operator. Had you had a different operator from the beginning, you clearly would have had different C coefficients because it would have a different difference to the Levi-Civita connection.

Also, the Levi-Civita connection is not a unique metric compatible connection. It is a unique metric compatible and torsion free connection.
 
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Moderator's note: moved to relativity forum as this isn't really a homework problem.
 
Put another way, the equation for C is clearly not invariant under change of connection but it should not be. It is the expression for the Levi-Civita connection that should be invariant.
 
Orodruin said:
While ##\bar \nabla## is arbitrary, it should be considered a fixed derivative operator throughout. You fixed it in the beginning. Then you found out what the C coefficients were given that operator. Had you had a different operator from the beginning, you clearly would have had different C coefficients because it would have a different difference to the Levi-Civita connection.

That's right, now I see it. A different deriative operator should give a different C. However I don't see how this solves the uniqueness problem. Let's say we have two different derivative operators ##\nabla## and ##\overline{\nabla}## ,then according to the theorem and using ##C## and ##\overline{C}## we can go to operators ##\nabla'## and ##\overline{\nabla}'## such that ##\nabla'_c\,g_{ab}=\overline{\nabla}'_c\,g_{ab}=0##, but this does not mean ##\nabla'=\overline{\nabla}'##

Orodruin said:
Also, the Levi-Civita connection is not a unique metric compatible connection. It is a unique metric compatible and torsion free connection.

In the context of the theorem ##\nabla## is supposed to be torsion free.
As I see it the uniquenes issue is essential for the usefullness of the theorem because after the theorem is proved Wald uses the ordinary derivative operator ##\partial_c## to obtain the ussual expression for the Levi-Civita conection, however since the operator ##\partial_c## is not chart independ we do not know if this procedure yields a chart independent derivative operator
 
facenian said:
That's right, now I see it. A different deriative operator should give a different C. However I don't see how this solves the uniqueness problem. Let's say we have two different derivative operators ∇∇\nabla and ¯¯¯¯¯∇∇¯\overline{\nabla} ,then according to the theorem and using CCC and ¯¯¯¯CC¯\overline{C} we can go to operators ∇′∇′\nabla' and ¯¯¯¯¯∇′∇¯′\overline{\nabla}' such that ∇′cgab=¯¯¯¯¯∇′cgab=0∇c′gab=∇¯c′gab=0\nabla'_c\,g_{ab}=\overline{\nabla}'_c\,g_{ab}=0, but this does not mean ∇′=¯¯¯¯¯∇′∇′=∇¯′\nabla'=\overline{\nabla}'
Sorry, but this is not correct. Given a connection there is only one set of Cs that will change it to a metric compatible one and therefore there is only one metric compatible connection. It does not matter that you get different Cs starting from different connections. You will always recover the same unique connection. You can easily check this by considering two different connections by comparing the resulting metric compatible connection. You will find that the Cs change in exactly the correct way to cancel out in the resulting metric compatible connection.
 
facenian said:
In the context of the theorem ∇∇\nabla is supposed to be torsion free.
As I see it the uniquenes issue is essential for the usefullness of the theorem because after the theorem is proved Wald uses the ordinary derivative operator ∂c∂c\partial_c to obtain the ussual expression for the Levi-Civita conection, however since the operator ∂c∂c\partial_c is not chart independ we do not know if this procedure yields a chart independent derivative operator
You can just as well derive the connection coefficients directly from the metric compatibility and see that it transforms in exactly the correct way under coordinate transformations.
 
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Orodruin said:
You can just as well derive the connection coefficients directly from the metric compatibility and see that it transforms in exactly the correct way under coordinate transformations.

Yes, Know that. The problem here is that I'm trying to understand it in the context of Wald's approach. For intance he does not consider the transformation properties. His appraoch is coordinate independend.
Anyway now I understand why in his approach it is unique and your observations help me to achieve that. Thank you.
 
facenian said:
For intance he does not consider the transformation properties. His appraoch is coordinate independend.
To be honest, caring about transformation properties is generally overemphasised in my opinion. If it is a derivative operator with the right properties (ie, mapping vector fields to vector fields, the product rule, etc), then its components must transform in the correct way. The same thing goes for vectors and tensors that many times are introduced by ”their components transform like this”, which is just obscuring what they are (multilinear maps).
 
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