Produce a set with the following properties....

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves producing an infinite collection of sets A1, A2, A3... such that each set has an infinite number of elements, the sets are pairwise disjoint, and their union equals the set of natural numbers N. The discussion centers around the construction and properties of these sets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss defining sets based on specific properties, such as digits of numbers and conditions that ensure disjointness. Questions arise about the validity of certain criteria and the implications of recursive definitions.

Discussion Status

Some participants provide guidance on the potential for recursive definitions and suggest alternative approaches, such as using prime numbers instead of digits. There is an exploration of different methods to define the sets while maintaining the required properties, but no consensus has been reached on a single approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants express concerns about the complexity of using individual digits and the adequacy of certain conditions for defining the sets. The discussion reflects a variety of interpretations and methods, indicating a lack of complete information on how to construct the sets effectively.

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Homework Statement


Produce an infinite collection of sets A1, A2, A3... with the property that every Ai has an infinite number of elements, Ai∩Aj = ∅ for all i ≠ j, and the union of all Ai is equal to N.

Homework Equations


None provided.

The Attempt at a Solution


What I've come up with is that each Ai is the set of all natural numbers x with the properties that:
1.) The ith digit of x is i and
2.) x is not contained in Ai-1

It feels like it's right, but I don't know how to check, and the second criterion feels a bit cheap. Help?
 
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jack476 said:

Homework Statement


Produce an infinite collection of sets A1, A2, A3... with the property that every Ai has an infinite number of elements, Ai∩Aj = ∅ for all i ≠ j, and the union of all Ai is equal to N.

Homework Equations


None provided.

The Attempt at a Solution


What I've come up with is that each Ai is the set of all natural numbers x with the properties that:
1.) The ith digit of x is i and
2.) x is not contained in Ai-1

It feels like it's right, but I don't know how to check, and the second criterion feels a bit cheap. Help?
What numbers are in A13 for instance?
 
SammyS said:
What numbers are in A13 for instance?

Yeah, that wouldn't make much sense, would it. Whoops :/
 
You actually have sort of the right idea, and step 2 isn't cheap. You are allowed to define sets recursively. You could, for example, think about prime numbers instead of digits. There are an infinite number of those, unlike digits. You were doing fine until you ran out of digits. And you could even stick with the digits if you redefine what you mean by the i'th digit.
 
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Looking at individual digits seems to me much too complicated. Just a condition of the values of x in A_i should be enough. And saying "not in A_{i-1} does not seem to me a good idea. Your definition of A_i should make that automatic.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Looking at individual digits seems to me much too complicated. Just a condition of the values of x in A_i should be enough. And saying "not in A_{i-1} does not seem to me a good idea. Your definition of A_i should make that automatic.

Why? There is more than one way to skin a cat. I can think of several uncomplicated ways to do this using digits. And I don't see anything wrong with defining a set ##A_i## that depends on the definitions of the previous sets. I'll give jack476 an example. Define ##A_1## to be the set of all integers whose lowest order digit is NOT 1. That's an infinite set and it gives it gives you an infinite number of elements that are not in the set. That's makes it a good starting point. Now just keep winnowing it down making sure each set is infinite and you always have enough leftovers to build the next infinite set. And that they finally include all of the natural numbers. Here's another. Define ##A_1## to be all numbers that have no 1's in their decimal representation. Continue.
 
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