Proof of Independence of U from V & P with Respect to T

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating that the internal energy \( U \) of a material, described by an equation of state \( p = f(V) \), is independent of volume \( V \) and pressure \( p \) at constant temperature \( T \). Participants explore the mathematical relationships and thermodynamic principles involved in this proof.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests starting with the assumption that \( U = f(p,V) \) and taking partial derivatives, but expresses uncertainty about how temperature \( T \) factors into the proof.
  • Another participant proposes manipulating the fundamental relation \( TdS = dU + pdV \) and considers using a Maxwell relation to relate \( ds/dV \) to \( dp/dT \), but is unclear on how to show the partial derivatives equal zero.
  • A different participant mentions using the fundamental relation to equate changes in \( U \) with changes in \( V \) or \( p \) at constant \( T \), but struggles to establish the necessary relationships.
  • One participant notes that if \( U = U(V,p) \), the chain rule can be applied to express \( dU \) in terms of its partial derivatives with respect to \( V \) and \( p \), but does not provide further clarity on the implications.
  • A final post questions whether the problem is a single variable problem, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the variables involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the approach to take or the relationships needed to demonstrate the independence of \( U \) from \( V \) and \( p \). Multiple competing views and methods are presented, but the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the application of thermodynamic principles and the relationships between variables, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of the problem's requirements.

mahdert
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Homework Statement


Show that the internal energy of a material whose equation of state has the form p = f(V), T is independent of the volume and the pressure. That is

[tex]\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}\right)_{T} = 0[/tex]

[tex]\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial p}\right)_{T} = 0[/tex]

Homework Equations


TdS = dU + pdV


The Attempt at a Solution


I know the answer intiutively, i just don't know how one would go about showing it.
I assume that U = f(p,v) and then take the partial derivatives, but I do not see where T comes into play
 
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Hmmm, Divide through by dv to get T ds/dv= dU/dv + p I am guessing you need to use a maxwell relation to get ds/dv to dp/dT I don't see how you get the partials to equal 0 though.
 


I am trying to use the fundamental relation: Tds = dU + pdV and equate it with the partial expansion of U = U(V,p), however, I keep getting stuck because I do not know how to get the relationship of the change in U with either a change in V or p for a given temperature.
 


not sure this helps but If U=U(V,p) you can use the chain rule to get to dU= (partial U/ partial V) dU + (partial U/partial p) dp
 
Simple Thermodynamics Problem

Is this a single variable problem?
 

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