Mastering Maxwell Relations in Thermodynamics: Derivation & Problem-Solving Tips

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving Maxwell relations in thermodynamics, specifically starting from the first Maxwell relation and using given mathematical relations. The focus is on understanding the application of these relations in a homework context.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the second relation provided in the problem, particularly regarding the meaning of the variable 'f' and how to apply it.
  • Another participant mentions familiarity with the equation dU=TdS-PdV and acknowledges the existence of additional relations for enthalpy, Helmholtz function, and Gibbs function.
  • A later reply clarifies that the initial approach may be incorrect and suggests considering the equation dU=TdS-PdV as a starting point.
  • One participant indicates that they initially misunderstood the task but later gains clarity on what is being asked.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to solve the problem, and multiple viewpoints regarding the application of the relations remain. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the correct starting point and the interpretation of the given relations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and roles of the variables involved in the relations, particularly the function 'f' and its implications for the problem-solving process.

BobaJ
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I'm studying Thermodynamics and I'm a little stuck at this problem.

1. Homework Statement


Starting with the first Maxwell relation, derive the remaining three by using only the relations:

$$\left(\frac{\partial x}{\partial y}\right) _{z} \left(\frac{\partial y}{\partial z}\right) _{x} \left(\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\right) _{y} = -1$$

and


$$\left(\frac{\partial x}{\partial y}\right) _{f} \left(\frac{\partial y}{\partial z}\right) _{f} \left(\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\right) _{f} = 1$$​

Homework Equations



The Maxwell relations are:

$$\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right) _{S} = - \left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial S}\right) _{V}$$
$$\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial P}\right) _{S} = \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial S}\right) _{P}$$
$$\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right) _{T} = \left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial T}\right) _{V}$$
$$\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial P}\right) _{T} = - \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial T}\right) _{P}$$

The Attempt at a Solution



My problem is, that I don't understand the second relation they give me to solve the problem. I'm not quite sure what would be f in this relation. I mean, in the book they define it as a function of x, y, and z, but I can't really use it. I don't know where to start. I'm sure that the problem is quite easy, but I need a little push to get started.

Any help would be appreciated
 
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BobaJ said:
I'm studying Thermodynamics and I'm a little stuck at this problem.

1. Homework Statement


Starting with the first Maxwell relation, derive the remaining three by using only the relations:

$$\left(\frac{\partial x}{\partial y}\right) _{z} \left(\frac{\partial y}{\partial z}\right) _{x} \left(\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\right) _{y} = -1$$

and


$$\left(\frac{\partial x}{\partial y}\right) _{f} \left(\frac{\partial y}{\partial z}\right) _{f} \left(\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\right) _{f} = 1$$​

Homework Equations



The Maxwell relations are:

$$\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial V}\right) _{S} = - \left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial S}\right) _{V}$$
$$\left(\frac{\partial T}{\partial P}\right) _{S} = \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial S}\right) _{P}$$
$$\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right) _{T} = \left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial T}\right) _{V}$$
$$\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial P}\right) _{T} = - \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial T}\right) _{P}$$

The Attempt at a Solution



My problem is, that I don't understand the second relation they give me to solve the problem. I'm not quite sure what would be f in this relation. I mean, in the book they define it as a function of x, y, and z, but I can't really use it. I don't know where to start. I'm sure that the problem is quite easy, but I need a little push to get started.

Any help would be appreciated
You're starting from the wrong relationships. Are you familiar with the equation dU=TdS-PdV?
 
Yes. I'm familiar with this equation. I know that there are 3 more for the enthalpy, the Helmholtz function and the Gibbs function. But I thought that the Maxwell relations are the four I wrote down and as the problem says to start with the first Maxwell relation I didn't think much about them.
 
Oh OK. I understand what you are being asked to do now.
 

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