Proof of Poincare Recurrence Theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Poincaré Recurrence Theorem, specifically seeking an accessible reference that outlines a proof of the theorem. Participants explore the assumptions related to phase points, their trajectories, and the implications of these assumptions in the context of dynamical systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests references for a proof of the Poincaré Recurrence Theorem, expressing difficulty in finding accessible materials that adequately address the assumptions involved.
  • The participant outlines three specific assumptions regarding phase points and their trajectories, noting a belief that these assumptions are jointly inconsistent but struggling to articulate why.
  • Another participant suggests that the proof is straightforward, introducing concepts such as Hamiltonian dynamics and the Liouville theorem, and argues that the preservation of volume in phase space leads to a contradiction if certain conditions are met.
  • There is a challenge to the initial request for references, with one participant suggesting that common resources like Wikipedia and Google should suffice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects a lack of consensus, with one participant seeking clarification on the assumptions while another presents a perspective on the proof's accessibility and simplicity. The nature of the assumptions and their implications remains contested.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of the assumptions regarding phase points and their trajectories, as well as the varying levels of understanding among participants regarding the proof of the theorem.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in dynamical systems, particularly those seeking to understand the Poincaré Recurrence Theorem and its foundational assumptions.

NickJ
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Does anyone know of an accessible reference that sketches a proof of Poincare's recurrence theorem? (This is not a homework question.)

I'm coming up short in my searches -- either the proof is too sketchy, or it is inaccessible to me (little background in maths, but enough to talk about phase points, their trajectories).

If possible, I'd like the proof to provide a reductio of the following assumptions:


1. A is a set of phase points in some region of Gamma-space, such that each point in A represents a system with fixed and finite energy E and finite spatial extension.

2. B is a non-empty subset of A consisting of those points on trajectories that never return to A having once left A.

3. The Lebesgue measure of B is both finite and non-zero.

I know these three assumptions are jointly inconsistent -- but I can't figure out why.

Thanks!
 
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Did you try Wikipedia, and google?
 
yup. no luck.
 
Ohw, the proof is quite easy to understand. First you must know that dynamics deals with a Hamiltonian, that is give me 2N numbers which we call position (first N) and momentum (second N) and I can tell you how the system evolves. Now, suppose you don't know precisely what the initial momenta and positions are and you take some volume in 2N space, then the Liouville theorem says that this volume is preserved if you drag it along the flow. Now assume that the points in your original neighborhood all belong to different trajectories, then the snake moves in a finite volume and cannot self intersect herself (because different fluid trajectories cannot intersect each other). This clearly leads to a contradiction.


Careful
 
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