Protein Folding and NP-Completeness

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the computational complexity of protein folding, specifically its classification as an NP-complete problem. Participants explore analogies to other NP-complete problems, such as the traveling salesman problem, and seek to understand the implications of these comparisons in the context of computational models like Turing machines.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to understand protein folding from a computational perspective and asks if there are analogous NP-complete problems.
  • Another participant describes protein folding as the process of arranging a string of amino acids into a stable structure of lowest energy, comparing it to the traveling salesman problem in terms of adjustments and configurations.
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the analogy to the traveling salesman problem and indicates a desire to explore further based on this analogy.
  • One participant shares a diagram of dihedral angles in protein folding, explaining the concept of fitness functions in genetic algorithms and how collisions between amino acids affect folding.
  • Another participant provides links to videos that may help in understanding the concepts related to protein folding.
  • A participant clarifies their goal of explaining P vs NP using protein folding and traveling salesman as examples, discussing the exponential growth of input strings and exploring how to frame protein folding in a similar way to the traveling salesman problem.
  • They propose a model where nodes represent folded configurations and edges represent energy changes, questioning if this analogy is valid or too simplistic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and propose different models and analogies, indicating that there is no consensus on the best way to explain the NP-completeness of protein folding or its relationship to other NP-complete problems.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific models and proofs related to protein folding and self-avoiding walks, but the discussion does not resolve the complexities or assumptions inherent in these models.

cobalt124
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I'm looking to understand how protein folding has been shown to be NP-complete, but from the computational side rather than the biological side (if this is possible). Is there an analogous NP-complete problem that is similar? I read that self avoiding random walks might have something to do with it, but I can't visualise how. Maybe a simple introduction/model to/of protein folding would help (if one exists).
 
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My understanding of protein folding is that given a string of amino acids linked together as a string of beads you must try to fold it into a stable structure of lowest energy.

To do this then you would start by adjusting the degrees of freedom of each amino acid link which may take on any value within an angular range. The angular range is the limit is established by one amino bead colliding with another bead.

The sequence order of adjustment and the value of the angles would correspond to a traveling salesman
Selecting the starting city and the direction of travel.

It may be that you will have go through several adjustments for each link as you attempt to properly fold the structure.
 
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Thankyou that looks like a foot in the door. I did come across traveling salesman when I was reading but forgot because I didn't understand the biology it was being related to. Going to do some further reading starting from your analogy see where I get.
 
Here’s a diagram of the dihedral angles of protein folding.

https://goo.gl/images/AeBCZL

So for each connecting point you have two angles that can be adjusted. In some cases, the angle may be invalid because the protein string may have collided. As an example, if you have a string of pearls then bend them so far before one pearl collides with another. That test would be part of your fitness function if you were using genetic algorithms to solve the folding.

You might find a better description on Wikipedia.
 
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I fund this video talk on protein folding that could get you started conceptwise:



and this one that gets into the details:

 
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OK I've managed to narrow down what I am looking for. I maybe should have been more specific in my initial question, but I was less wise then. I'm trying to write a simple to understand explanation of PvsNP and my example NP problems are to be traveling salesman and protein folding. I want to show explicitly how the input string on a Turing Machine would grow exponentially in relation to the number of cities/amino acids. This I understand with Travelling Salesman. For protein folding I've had another search starting from the links above and have come up with two possible ways of explaining simply how protein folding is NP-Complete. The first is from:

http://www.brown.edu/Research/Istrail_Lab/papers/1998/p30-berger.pdf

which shows a complicated proof for a simple model of protein folding using a self avoiding walk on a 3D lattice being NP-Complete. This is a simple to understand model, but I can't extract a correspondingly simple explanation of why it would be NP-Complete using the Turing Machine model. The other approach is the one suggested for Travelling Salesman above:

Nodes are cities, edges are distances between cities, find the minimum distance from a starting city to visit a list of cities

Is there an analogous statement for a simple protein folding model:

Nodes are all the possible folded configurations, edges are the change in energy levels between folds, find the minimum energy level configuration. The "starting city" is a string of amino acids.

This looks different to Travelling Salesman, is an analogy like this too simple, or even possible? I may have misunderstood what was being said. Though given the two examples I am using this might be the better approach.
 

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