Proving Approximation for Relativity Math Problem | T^2 << (c^2/alpha^2)

  • Thread starter Thread starter faklif
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Approximation
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical problem related to relativity, specifically proving an approximation involving the relationship between time variables T and t under certain conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various methods to manipulate the hyperbolic sine function and its Taylor expansion to derive the desired approximation. There are attempts to solve for t and to use Maclaurin expansions, with some participants questioning the roles of T and t in the equations.

Discussion Status

The conversation is active, with participants providing suggestions and alternative approaches. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of hyperbolic functions and their expansions, though there is no explicit consensus on the best path forward.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the use of information from the problem and the roles of the variables involved. There are mentions of needing to clarify the series expansions and how they relate to the original problem statement.

faklif
Messages
17
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


This comes from a book on relativity but it basically comes down to a math problem. The problem is to prove that if
T^2 \ll\frac{c^2}{\alpha^2}
then
{t}\approx{T}(1-\frac{\alpha^2{T^2}}{6c^2})
given
\frac{\alpha{T}}{c}=sinh(\frac{\alpha{t}}{c})

Homework Equations


See above.


The Attempt at a Solution


I've tried solving for t from the equation
\frac{\alpha{T}}{c}=sinh(\frac{\alpha{t}}{c})
which gives
t=\frac{c}{\alpha}\log(\frac{T\alpha}{c}+\sqrt{1+\frac{T^2\alpha^2}{c^2}})
I thought I'd be able to use maclaurin expansion at this point because of how the approximation looks but I keep making mistakes and I'm not getting anywhere at the moment so I'd really appreciate some help.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What if you tried writing the hyperbolic sine function in terms of exponential functions first? Their Taylor expansions are easy...
 
cepheid said:
What if you tried writing the hyperbolic sine function in terms of exponential functions first? Their Taylor expansions are easy...

Thanks for the reply!

Using the first four terms of each of the expansions I end up with what looks like the some kind of opposite to what I want
<br /> {T}\approx{t}(1+\frac{\alpha^2{t^2}}{6c^2})<br />
I can't see that I can get where I want from this and I haven't used all information in the problem to get here, maybe I'm missing something.
 
faklif said:
Thanks for the reply!

Using the first four terms of each of the expansions I end up with what looks like the some kind of opposite to what I want
<br /> {T}\approx{t}(1+\frac{\alpha^2{t^2}}{6c^2})<br />
I can't see that I can get where I want from this and I haven't used all information in the problem to get here, maybe I'm missing something.

You need to reverse the roles of t and T. You could also write at/c=arcsinh(aT/c) and use arcsinh(x)=x-x^3/3!+...
 
No reason in the world to be always writing hyperbolic functions as exponentials!

sihh(0)= 0.
(sinh(x))'= cosh(x) and cosh(0)= 1.
(sinh(x))"= (cosh(x))'= sinh(x) and sinh(0)= 0.
(sinh(x))'''= (sinh(x))'= cosh(x) and cosh(0)= 1, etc.
 
faklif said:
I can't see that I can get where I want from this
Well, have you at least substituted that approximation into T(1-\frac{\alpha^2{T^2}}{6c^2})?
 
Dick said:
You need to reverse the roles of t and T. You could also write at/c=arcsinh(aT/c) and use arcsinh(x)=x-x^3/3!+...

Thanks a lot that does it! Also gives me another question and that is how to find that arcsinh(x)=x-x^3/3!+...? My thought of simply solving for t and then looking at what I got didn't really get me there.

Hurkyl said:
Well, have you at least substituted that approximation into T(1-\frac{\alpha^2{T^2}}{6c^2})?

How can I do that substitution? I'm feeling very rusty here, I'm sorry.
 
faklif said:
Also gives me another question and that is how to find that arcsinh(x)=x-x^3/3!+...?

Here's one way. The derivative of arcsinh x is (1+x^2)^{-1/2} so use the binomial series to find the series for that, then integrate term by term. You only need a few terms anyway, not the whole series.
 
A physicist would just take
<br /> <br /> {T}\approx{t}(1+\frac{\alpha^2{t^2}}{6c^2})<br /> <br />
and say, hey, that means t=T with correction of higher order. So I can just replace t^2 with T^2 without making any errors I would care about. So I can change that into
<br /> <br /> {T}\approx{t}(1+\frac{\alpha^2{T^2}}{6c^2})<br /> <br />
Now move all the T's to one side and use 1/(1+x) is approximately equal to 1-x for x<<1.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Thank you everyone!
 

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
11K
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K