Proving Group of Order 35 Contains Elements of Order 5 & 7

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving whether a group of order 35 contains elements of order 5 and 7, utilizing group theory concepts such as Lagrange's Theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of Lagrange's Theorem regarding the possible orders of elements in a group of order 35. There are attempts to reason through the consequences of assuming all elements have a specific order and the resulting contradictions. Questions arise about the validity of these assumptions and whether they can lead to proving the existence of elements of both orders.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing hints and questioning the assumptions made about the orders of elements. Some guidance is offered regarding the implications of having elements of one order on the existence of elements of another order, though no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the use of Sylow's theorems is not permitted in this context, which may limit the approaches available for proving the existence of elements of order 5 and 7.

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Homework Statement


Does a group of order 35 contain an element of order 5? of order 7?

*I must prove all my answers.

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution


I'm not really sure how to prove this and could really use some hints. Here's what I've got so far:

Pf. Let [itex]G[/itex] be a group of order 35, and let [itex]x \in G[/itex] such that [itex]x \neq e[/itex], where [itex]e[/itex] is the identity element of [itex]G[/itex]. It follows from Lagrange's Thoerem that [itex]x[/itex] will be of order 5, 7, or 35. If [itex]x[/itex] is of order 35, then [itex]G[/itex] is cyclic and thus has elements of order 5 and 7.

So at this point, I want to suppose that [itex]x[/itex] doesn't have order 35. But since [itex]G[/itex] has 35 elements, the only other possibilities for the orders of the other nontrivial elements are either 5 or 7. Is this reasoning okay? Being optimistic, I will proceed and claim that each element [itex]x \in G[/itex] is of order 5. Then each [itex]x[/itex] generates an additional three unique elements: [itex]x, \, \, x^2, \, \, x^3[/itex]. But this would imply that the order of [itex]G[/itex] would be either 33 or 37 since elements of order 5 yield sets of four unique elements [itex]\{ x , \, \, x^2, \, \, x^3, \, \, x^4\}[/itex], a contradiction to the fact that [itex]|G| = 35[/itex]. Thus [itex]G[/itex] contains at least one element of order 7.
 
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You have said, correctly, that G must have a member of order 5, 7, or 35. You have noted, correctly, that if it has a member of order 35, it must be cyclic and so have members of order 5 and 7.

Now, it G does not have a member or order 35, then it must have a member of order 5 or 7. Yes, assume, first, that there is a member of order 5. Can you then prove it must also have a member of order 7? Lastly assume there is a member of order 7. Can you then prove it must also have a member of order 5?
 
Yes, I believe I can. Is the part where I assumed all members of [itex]G[/itex] have an order 5 then showed that [itex]G[/itex] must contain element of order 7 correct? If so, I can play the same game again and suppose all members of [itex]G[/itex] have an order of 7 and show that this would imply the order of [itex]G[/itex] must be either 31 or 37; again a contradiction to the fact that [itex]|G|=35[/itex].
 
Are you allowed to use Sylow's theorems? If so, they might be useful here.
 
No, I am not allowed to use Sylow's theorems.
 

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