Proving periodic orbits using Poincare Bendixson's Theorem and a trapping region

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a system described in polar coordinates with equations for \(\dot{r}\) and \(\dot{\theta}\). The objective is to use Poincare Bendixson's Theorem and a trapping region to demonstrate the existence of at least one periodic orbit.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the characteristics of the function \(g(\theta)\) and its implications for the behavior of \(\dot{r}\). There are attempts to identify values for \(r\) that ensure \(\dot{r}\) is positive or negative, suggesting a trapping region. Questions arise regarding the existence of fixed points within this region and their impact on periodic orbits.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring various interpretations of the trapping region and the implications of Poincare Bendixson's Theorem. Some guidance has been provided regarding the selection of values for \(r\) and the nature of fixed points, but no consensus has been reached on the stability characteristics of the periodic orbit.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of identifying a trapping region and the conditions under which fixed points can exist. There is also mention of a second part of the problem regarding stability characteristics, which some participants find challenging.

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Homework Statement


System in polar coordinates
[itex]\dot{r}[/itex] = 2r - r3(2 + sin([itex]\theta[/itex])),
[itex]\dot{\theta}[/itex] = 3 - r2

Use a trapping region to show there is at least one periodic orbit?


Homework Equations



By using Poincare Bendixson's Theorem

The Attempt at a Solution



I am struggling to know where to start.. Do I start by considering
g([itex]\theta[/itex]) = 2 + sin([itex]\theta[/itex]). Any help would be greatly appreciated?
 
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Your g(θ) is always between 3 and 1. Try and find a small value r1 such that r' on the circle r=r1 is always positive. Now find a larger value of r2 such that r' on the circle r=r2 is always negative. Doesn't that make the region between the two circles a trapping region? Now think about fixed points.
 
Okay so does this mean

1≤g(θ)≤3 So you get

[itex]\dot{r}[/itex] = 2r - r3g(θ)
[itex]\dot{r}[/itex] > 2r - 3r3 > 0 and so 2/3 > r2

[itex]\dot{r}[/itex] < 2r - r3 < 0 and so r2 > 2

and √(2/3) < r < √2
 
Rubik said:
Okay so does this mean

1≤g(θ)≤3 So you get

[itex]\dot{r}[/itex] = 2r - r3g(θ)
[itex]\dot{r}[/itex] > 2r - 3r3 > 0 and so 2/3 > r2

[itex]\dot{r}[/itex] < 2r - r3 < 0 and so r2 > 2

and √(2/3) < r < √2

No, you don't really have to solve for anything. Pick a small value of r like r=1/2. Can you show r'>0 if r=1/2?
 
So if I have to give bounds for the periodic orbit I can pick any value for r(small) provided r'>0 and then choose another value (this time larger) and show r'<0? How would I then determine its stability characteristics?
 
Rubik said:
So if I have to give bounds for the periodic orbit I can pick any value for r(small) provided r'>0 and then choose another value (this time larger) and show r'<0? How would I then determine its stability characteristics?

If you can find such values then you have a trapped region between the two circles. Can you have a fixed point in between? Try and figure out why not. Where can a fixed point be? Then use Poincare Bendixson clearly, yes?
 
Last edited:
There can't be any fixed points in trapping region. There can be a fixed point at the origin? So to determing the stability I determine the fixed point at the origin?
 
Rubik said:
There can't be any fixed points in trapping region. There can be a fixed point at the origin? So to determing the stability I determine the fixed point at the origin?

Sure there is a fixed point at the origin. But that doesn't matter since it's not in your trapping region. Then what does your theorem tell you?
 
So the flow enters the trapping region about the origin which has no critical points which means it is a stable periodic orbit in the trapping region..
 
  • #10
Rubik said:
So the flow enters the trapping region about the origin which has no critical points which means it is a stable periodic orbit in the trapping region..

Not quite. It tells you there IS a periodic orbit in the trapping region. What's the exact statement of the theorem you are using?
 
  • #11
Suppose [itex]\alpha[/itex](x0) enters and does not leave some closed and bounded domain D that contains no critical points. This means that [itex]\phi[/itex](x0, t) [itex]\in[/itex] D for all t≥[itex]\tau[/itex], for some [itex]\tau[/itex]≥0. Then there is at least one periodic orbit in D and this orbit is in the [itex]\omega[/itex]-limit set of x0.

What does this mean in terms of stability? I have no idea how to determine the stability?
 
  • #12
I'm maybe overextending myself here, but didn't the original problem ask you to show that there is a periodic orbit? I don't think it said anything about stability?
 
  • #13
Yes it did, but I didn't realize there was a second part that asks to determine its stability characteristics..
 
  • #14
Rubik said:
Yes it did, but I didn't realize there was a second part that asks to determine its stability characteristics..

Ok, dynamical systems aren't really something I know well, so I might have to recuse myself here. Sorry.
 
  • #15
No problem thanks so much for your help!
 

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