Proving Q+ is not Isomorphic to Q in a First Course in Algebra

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the group of positive rational numbers, Q+, is not isomorphic to the group of rational numbers, Q. The problem includes demonstrating properties of subgroups and their implications for group isomorphisms in the context of a first course in algebra.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of subgroup orders and bijections between Q+ and Q. The original poster considers the relationship between the quotient groups Q+/A and Q/B, questioning the validity of a potential isomorphism. Others raise questions about the properties of images of subgroups under isomorphisms and the necessary conditions for bijections.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants exploring various aspects of the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the construction of bijections and the properties that need to be verified, but there is no explicit consensus on the conclusion yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information they can use or the methods they can apply. There is an emphasis on understanding subgroup structures and their implications for isomorphisms.

Essnov
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I'm taking a first course in algebra, and in my textbook, there is the following problem:

a) Show that, for every natural # n, there is a subgroup A of Q+ such that |Q+/H| = n.

b) Suppose that B is a proper subgroup of Q. Show that |Q / B| = ∞.

c) Conclude that Q+ ≠ Q.

I did parts a and b just fine, but I'm not sure if I see how to (properly) conclude from them that Q+ ≠ Q.

I'm thinking that if there is to be a bijection from Q+ → Q, then there should be a bijection from Q+ / A → Q / B, but that's not possible since Q+ / A and Q / B should at least have the same order.

So basically if P : Q+ → Q is a bijection, the following are also bijections:
For g in Q+, h in Q,
R taking g to gA
S taking h to hB

So the composition S o P o R-1 should be a bijection from Q+ / A → Q / B, which is (I think) a contradiction, so there should be no such P.

Am I doing this properly or am I missing something more obvious?
 
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Let [itex]f:\mathbb{Q}^+\rightarrow \mathbb{Q}[/itex] be an isomorphism. What can you say about f(A)? (where A is the subgroup with [itex]|\mathbb{Q}^+/A|=3[/itex] or another number).
 
I cannot think of anything helpful. f(A) will be a subgroup of Q? I feel like we should have | Q / f(A) | = n but I don't know how to show this.
 
Show that

[tex]\mathbb{Q}^+/A \rightarrow \mathbb{Q}/f(A): x+A\rightarrow f(x)+f(A)[/tex]

is a bijection. So show

1) it is well-defined
2) it is injective
3) it is surjective
 
Thank you very much for your help :)
 

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