Proving that ##\omega_0^2 < 2g/l ## for a simple pendulum.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the condition ##\omega_0^2 < 2g/l## for a simple pendulum, specifically addressing the implications of this condition on the tension in the string and the motion of the pendulum. The scope includes theoretical analysis, mathematical reasoning, and potential applications of Lagrangian mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the problem and attempts to derive the equations of motion using the Lagrangian approach, expressing uncertainty about the next steps.
  • Another participant reformulates the condition ##\omega_0^2 < 2g/l## into an energy comparison, suggesting that the left-hand side represents kinetic energy at the lowest point and the right-hand side represents potential energy at the maximum height of 90 degrees.
  • A similar energy transformation is reiterated by another participant, who also questions the applicability of Lagrange multipliers to solve the problem.
  • One participant expresses unfamiliarity with using the Lagrangian method for tension issues and suggests an alternative approach involving the balance of forces, including centrifugal force and tension.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method to approach the problem, with differing opinions on the use of Lagrangian mechanics versus force balance methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the application of these methods to prove the condition.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the application of energy conservation and the treatment of forces in the pendulum system. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps necessary to fully prove the condition.

hello_world30
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TL;DR
Using Lagrange multipliers to prove tension as a force of constraint and that # \omega_0^2 < 2gl ##
Here is the problem :
A pendulum is composed of a mass m attached to a string of length l, which is suspended
from a fixed point. When hanging at equilibrium, the pendulum is hit with a horizontal
impulse that results in an initial angular velocity ω0. Show that if ω20 < 2g/l, the string
will always be in tension and that the motion will be confined below a horizontal plane
passing through the suspension point of the string.My attempt at the solution:

L = ## 1/2 ml^2\theta'^2 + mglcos(\theta) ##

Then solving for the Euler Lagrange equations I get ##T = m\theta^" l^2 + mglsin\theta ##

However, I do not know how to proceed from here.
 
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\omega_0^2 &lt; 2g/l is transformed to
l^2 \omega_0^2 &lt; 2gl
\frac{1}{2}m l^2 \omega_0^2 &lt; mgl
where m is mass of pendulum plomb.
LHS is kinetic energy at the bottom. RHS is potential energy from the bottom corresponding to pendulum angle of 90 degree.
 
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anuttarasammyak said:
\omega_0^2 &lt; 2g/l is transformed to
l^2 \omega_0^2 &lt; 2gl
\frac{1}{2}m l^2 \omega_0^2 &lt; mgl
where m is mass of pendulum plomb.
LHS is kinetic energy at the bottom. RHS is potential energy from the bottom corresponding to pendulum angle of 90 degree.
is there a way to solve it using lagrange multipliers ?
 
I am not familiar with applying Lagrange method for such a code tension issue.
Balance of virtual centrifugal force, gravity and code tension would be an another method.
 

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