Proving the Dogs Meet at a Single Point: A Mathematical Analysis

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical problem involving N dogs on a plane, each chasing the next dog in a circular formation. The original poster attempts to prove that these dogs will eventually meet at a single point by analyzing the distances between them and their velocities.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the original poster's function for the sum of distances and the implications of its derivative. Questions arise regarding the treatment of vectors and dimensions in the calculations, as well as the correctness of the derivative's sign.

Discussion Status

Some participants provide feedback on the original poster's approach, suggesting clarifications and corrections. There is an exploration of the definitions used and the relationships between the dogs' positions and velocities. Multiple interpretations of the derivative's behavior are being discussed without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with the assumptions made in the original poster's calculations, particularly regarding the dimensionality of the points and the treatment of angles in the context of the problem.

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Homework Statement


There are N dogs on the plane. Each dog chases the tail of the next dog with a speed of 1 (and the last dog is chasing the first). I want to prove that the dogs will eventually meet at a single point.
2. The attempt at a solution

I defined a function that is sum of distances between each dog and the next one. If I show that the derivative of this function over time is negative, then this distances will eventually become zero.
I have attached a scan of my attempt. As you can see, the result is not always negative. I know there are better way to solve this problem, I just want to understand what is wrong in my approach. Maybe the derivative at line 2 is wrong?

Thank you.



3. Relevant equations
attachment.php?attachmentid=31811&stc=1&d=1296560206.jpg

[tex]p_k[/tex] is the location of the kth dog on 2D plane.
[tex]u_k[/tex] is the unit vector that points to the next dog, it is also the velocity of the kth dog.
 

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I do not understand where the second equality in your second lines comes from.
You regard your u's as vectors, but treat your p as 1 dimensional point.
It might be a good idea to write the distances explicitly in terms of the x and y coordinates of the positions of the dog. You can then also express the u in terms of the positions.
 
p is a 2D point. I forgot to mention that d is the distance function between two points.
I got this result using the chain rule:
[tex] \[\frac{{\partial d\left( {{p_i},{p_j}} \right)}}{{\partial {p_i}}} = \frac{{\partial \sqrt {{{\left( {{p_i} - {p_j}} \right)}^2}} }}{{\partial {p_i}}} = \frac{{\frac{1}{2}}}{{\sqrt {{{\left( {{p_i} - {p_j}} \right)}^2}} }} \cdot 2\left( {\left( {{p_i} - {p_j}} \right)} \right) \cdot 1 = \frac{{{p_i} - {p_j}}}{{d\left( {{p_i} - {p_j}} \right)}} = {u_{i \to j}}\][/tex]
 
Ok, then your definitions are alright.

I don't have much time right now.
Did you remember that the sum of your angles has to be 2Pi (maybe a multiple of that). Maybe this will help you.
 
Actually as your result goes, the derivative is always positive.

But you made a small mistake in your second line, that also shows in your last post.

As you defined it, [tex]\vec u_{k\to k+1}[/tex] is the vector going from [tex]p_k[/tex] to [tex]p_{k+1}[/tex], or in vector notation [tex]\vec u_{k\to k+1}=\vec p_{k+1}-\vec p_k[/tex].
Therefore
[tex] <br /> \[\frac{\partial d\left( p_i,p_j \right)}{\partial p_i} =- u_{i \to j}\]<br /> [/tex]
This will give you a minus in front of the N in your final result and then the derivative is always negative.
 

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