Proving the Rational Numbers of the Form 3n6m is a Group under Multiplication

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves proving that the set of rational numbers of the form 3n6m, where m and n are integers, forms a group under multiplication. Participants are discussing the necessary group properties such as identity, inverses, closure, and associativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the identity element and suggest it is 3060. They explore the closure property by examining the product of two elements of the form 3m6n and question whether the result remains in the same form. There are inquiries about the clarity of statements regarding integer properties and closure under addition.

Discussion Status

Some participants express confidence in the original poster's understanding but suggest more detail is needed for clarity. There is an ongoing exploration of how to articulate the closure property correctly, with suggestions for phrasing and completeness in the explanation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster's submission may need refinement before submission, particularly in demonstrating closure and the properties of integers. There is an emphasis on ensuring that the expressions used conform to the required form for the group definition.

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Homework Statement



Prove that the set of all rational numbers of the form 3n6m, m,n[itex]\in[/itex]Z, is a group under multiplication.

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



For this problem I attempted to show that the given set has 1. an Identity element, 2. each element has an inverse, 3. Closure under multiplication, and 4. Associativity.

1. The identity element is 1

2. The inverse is 3-n6-m

3. Closure: the rationals are closed under multiplication, so closure holds, i.e.

(3m6n)(3k6l) = 3m+k6n+l.

4. Associativity: This is a property of the rationals and holds, i.e.

(3m6n[itex]\ast[/itex]3k6l)[itex]\ast[/itex]3p6q = 3m6n[itex]\ast[/itex](3k6l[itex]\ast[/itex]3p6q)


4. Associativity:
 
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I don't see a question here. It looks like you have the idea. But I would write the identity as 3060. And closure is not because the rationals are closed under multiplication, it is because rationals of the form 3m6n are closed under multiplication, which is what you showed. If it is to hand in I would show a bit more detail.
 
LCKurtz said:
I don't see a question here. It looks like you have the idea. But I would write the identity as 3060. And closure is not because the rationals are closed under multiplication, it is because rationals of the form 3m6n are closed under multiplication, which is what you showed. If it is to hand in I would show a bit more detail.

I guess my question would be, "Is this correct?"

I'm glad I was on the right path. I will certainly clean it up before handing it in. Thank you!
 
srfriggen said:
...

3. Closure: the rationals are closed under multiplication, so closure holds, i.e.

(3m6n)(3k6l) = 3m+k6n+l.

4. Associativity: This is a property of the rationals and holds, i.e.

(3m6n[itex]\ast[/itex]3k6l)[itex]\ast[/itex]3p6q = 3m6n[itex]\ast[/itex](3k6l[itex]\ast[/itex]3p6q)

...
The following are in addition to the comments of LCKurtz.

For Closure:
Of course it's true that (3m6n)(3k6l) = 3m+k6n+l. This is true due to properties of rational numbers under multiplication, particularly the commutative and associative properties.

But, for this equation to demonstrate closure, the quantity on the right side of the equation needs to be of the form 3r6s, where r,s∈ℤ.

Why is it that 3m+k6n+l is of the desired form? It's because the integers are closed under addition.​
 
SammyS said:
The following are in addition to the comments of LCKurtz.

For Closure:
Of course it's true that (3m6n)(3k6l) = 3m+k6n+l. This is true due to properties of rational numbers under multiplication, particularly the commutative and associative properties.

But, for this equation to demonstrate closure, the quantity on the right side of the equation needs to be of the form 3r6s, where r,s∈ℤ.

Why is it that 3m+k6n+l is of the desired form? It's because the integers are closed under addition.​

Can I just write, "m+k, n+l are integers, since the integers are closed under addition"? Or should I write m+k=r, where r is an integer since the integers are closed under addition.
 
srfriggen said:
Can I just write, "m+k, n+l are integers, since the integers are closed under addition"? Or should I write m+k=r, where r is an integer since the integers are closed under addition.
It should be good enough to write, "m+k, n+l are integers, since the integers are closed under addition" .

I was merely trying to write a complete statement in my earlier post, with the r & s ..
 

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