Question about 2nd order linear ODEs series solutions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around second-order linear ordinary differential equations (ODEs) and their series solutions, particularly focusing on the conditions under which solutions are analytic and the implications of initial conditions on the form of the solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the analyticity of the solution y(z) depends on the analyticity of the functions p(z) and q(z) in the ODE.
  • Another participant provides an example where p(z) and q(z) are not analytic at a point, leading to a solution that is not analytic at that point.
  • Participants discuss the recurrence relation derived from substituting a power series into the ODE and the implications of initial conditions on the coefficients a0 and a1.
  • There is a clarification that the general solution of the ODE can be expressed as a linear combination of cos(z) and sin(z), which is consistent with the power series expansion.
  • Some participants emphasize that a0 and a1 should remain arbitrary constants unless specified by initial conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for initial conditions to determine the coefficients in the series solution, but there is some debate regarding the implications of analyticity and the nature of singular points in the context of the ODE.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of understanding singular points and the conditions under which solutions to ODEs are analytic. There are unresolved aspects regarding the specific behavior of solutions at singular points and the dependence on initial conditions.

Tosh5457
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I got some questions about this topic...

[tex]y'' + p(z)y' + q(z)y=0[/tex]
where y (and its derivatives) is a function of z, z ∈ ℂ.

1) My books says this: In points where both p(z) and q(z) are analytic, y(z) is also analytic. But in points where p(z) or q(z) (or both) aren't analytic, y(z) may not be analytic.

Since y(z) is a differentiable complex function in an open set (it must be for the ODE to make sense, right?), it's holomorphic in that set, and so it's analytic. So I don't understand why y(z) may not be analytic when p or q aren't analytic. Why does y(z) being analytic or not even depends on the behavior of these functions?

2) This is a question about an example.
The problem is:
Find the series solutions, about z = 0, of
[tex]y''(z) + y(z) = 0[/tex]

y can be written as a power series (it's analytic), so:
[tex]y(z)=\sum_{n=0}^{\infty}a_{n}z^{n}[/tex]

Substituting the series in the EDO, we obtain the two-term recurrence relation:

[tex]a_{n+2}=-\frac{a_{n}}{(n+2)(n+1)}, n \geq 0[/tex]

So,

[tex]y(z)=1+z-\frac{z^{2}}{2!}+\frac{z^{3}}{3!}-...[/tex]

Which is equal to:

[tex]y(z) = cos(z) + sin(z)[/tex]

The solution to the EDO is:

[tex]y(z) = c_{1}cos(z) + c_{2}sin(z)[/tex]

Why isn't the solution this though?:
[tex]y(z) = cos(z) + sin(z)[/tex]

We stated that y(z) was a power series, and the power series turned out to be cos(z) + sin(z), so why do we take the linear combination of these 2 functions as the solution? Was the initial assumption that y(z) equals a power series wrong?

Thanks :smile:
 
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To your first question: suppose p(z) = 1/z and q(z) = -1/z^2. These aren't analytic at z = 0 even though they are analytic everywhere else. Multiplying the ODE by z^2 then gives z^2y'' + zy' - y = 0, which has solution y(z) = Az + B/z for arbitrary constants A and B. We see that at z = 0, 1/z is not analytic. On the other hand, z is analytic at z = 0.

Points at which p(z) or q(z) have (essential) singularities are called singular points of the ODE, and typically at least one of the two linearly independent solutions will have a(n essential) singularity at such a point. Another example is Bessel's equation: p(z) = 1/z, q(z) = 1 - a^2/z^2 where a is a constant; the J solutions are bounded at z = 0, but the Y solutions have a singularity.

Tosh5457 said:
2) This is a question about an example.
The problem is:
Find the series solutions, about z = 0, of
[tex]y''(z) + y(z) = 0[/tex]

You already know (I hope) that the solution of that is ##y(0)\cos(z) + y'(0)\sin(z)##, so if you don't end up with that then you've made an error in your calculations.

Tosh5457 said:
y can be written as a power series (it's analytic), so:
[tex]y(z)=\sum_{n=0}^{\infty}a_{n}z^{n}[/tex]

Substituting the series in the EDO, we obtain the two-term recurrence relation:

[tex]a_{n+2}=-\frac{a_{n}}{(n+2)(n+1)}, n \geq 0[/tex]

So far so good.

Tosh5457 said:
So,

[tex]y(z)=1+z-\frac{z^{2}}{2!}+\frac{z^{3}}{3!}-...[/tex]

Here's your error: Why should a0 = a1 = 1? a0 and a1 are determined by the initial conditions, but you haven't been given any. So you leave a0 and a1 as arbitrary constants.

You're asked for series solutions, so now you need to solve this recurrence relation to find ##a_n## in terms of ##a_0## and ##a_1##.

You should satisfy yourself (ideally by a formal proof by induction) that if n = 2m (##m \geq 0##) then

[tex]a_{2m} = a_0 {{(-1)^m} \over (2m)!}[/tex]

and if n = 2m+1 (##m \geq 0##) then

[tex]a_{2m+1} = a_1 {{(-1)^m} \over (2m+1)!}[/tex]

so that

[tex]y(z) = <br /> \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} a_n z^n =<br /> a_0\sum_{m=0}^{\infty} {{(-1)^m z^{2m}} \over (2m)!}<br /> + a_1\sum_{m=0}^{\infty} {{(-1)^m z^{2m+1}} \over (2m+1)!}[/tex]

which gives us the series solutions you were asked to find. You should recognize this as the power series about ##z = 0## of ##y(z) = a_0 \cos(z) + a_1 \sin(z)##.
 
Last edited:
pasmith said:
To your first question: suppose p(z) = 1/z and q(z) = -1/z^2. These aren't analytic at z = 0 even though they are analytic everywhere else. Multiplying the ODE by z^2 then gives z^2y'' + zy' - y = 0, which has solution y(z) = Az + B/z for arbitrary constants A and B. We see that at z = 0, 1/z is not analytic. On the other hand, z is analytic at z = 0.

Points at which p(z) or q(z) have (essential) singularities are called singular points of the ODE, and typically at least one of the two linearly independent solutions will have a(n essential) singularity at such a point. Another example is Bessel's equation: p(z) = 1/z, q(z) = 1 - a^2/z^2 where a is a constant; the J solutions are bounded at z = 0, but the Y solutions have a singularity.



You already know (I hope) that the solution of that is ##y(0)\cos(z) + y'(0)\sin(z)##, so if you don't end up with that then you've made an error in your calculations.



So far so good.



Here's your error: Why should a0 = a1 = 1? a0 and a1 are determined by the initial conditions, but you haven't been given any. So you leave a0 and a1 as arbitrary constants.

You're asked for series solutions, so now you need to solve this recurrence relation to find ##a_n## in terms of ##a_0## and ##a_1##.

You should satisfy yourself (ideally by a formal proof by induction) that if n = 2m (##m \geq 0##) then

[tex]a_{2m} = a_0 {{(-1)^m} \over (2m)!}[/tex]

and if n = 2m+1 (##m \geq 0##) then

[tex]a_{2m+1} = a_1 {{(-1)^m} \over (2m+1)!}[/tex]

so that

[tex]y(z) = <br /> \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} a_n z^n =<br /> a_0\sum_{m=0}^{\infty} {{(-1)^m z^{2m}} \over (2m)!}<br /> + a_1\sum_{m=0}^{\infty} {{(-1)^m z^{2m+1}} \over (2m+1)!}[/tex]

which gives us the series solutions you were asked to find. You should recognize this as the power series about ##z = 0## of ##y(z) = a_0 \cos(z) + a_1 \sin(z)##.

"excellent job and your analysis point on, pasmith. You are correct on all notes,

a_0 and a_1 are arbitary, unless given specifications. "

yus310
 
pasmith said:
To your first question: suppose p(z) = 1/z and q(z) = -1/z^2. These aren't analytic at z = 0 even though they are analytic everywhere else. Multiplying the ODE by z^2 then gives z^2y'' + zy' - y = 0, which has solution y(z) = Az + B/z for arbitrary constants A and B. We see that at z = 0, 1/z is not analytic. On the other hand, z is analytic at z = 0.

Points at which p(z) or q(z) have (essential) singularities are called singular points of the ODE, and typically at least one of the two linearly independent solutions will have a(n essential) singularity at such a point. Another example is Bessel's equation: p(z) = 1/z, q(z) = 1 - a^2/z^2 where a is a constant; the J solutions are bounded at z = 0, but the Y solutions have a singularity.



You already know (I hope) that the solution of that is ##y(0)\cos(z) + y'(0)\sin(z)##, so if you don't end up with that then you've made an error in your calculations.



So far so good.



Here's your error: Why should a0 = a1 = 1? a0 and a1 are determined by the initial conditions, but you haven't been given any. So you leave a0 and a1 as arbitrary constants.

You're asked for series solutions, so now you need to solve this recurrence relation to find ##a_n## in terms of ##a_0## and ##a_1##.

You should satisfy yourself (ideally by a formal proof by induction) that if n = 2m (##m \geq 0##) then

[tex]a_{2m} = a_0 {{(-1)^m} \over (2m)!}[/tex]

and if n = 2m+1 (##m \geq 0##) then

[tex]a_{2m+1} = a_1 {{(-1)^m} \over (2m+1)!}[/tex]

so that

[tex]y(z) = <br /> \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} a_n z^n =<br /> a_0\sum_{m=0}^{\infty} {{(-1)^m z^{2m}} \over (2m)!}<br /> + a_1\sum_{m=0}^{\infty} {{(-1)^m z^{2m+1}} \over (2m+1)!}[/tex]

which gives us the series solutions you were asked to find. You should recognize this as the power series about ##z = 0## of ##y(z) = a_0 \cos(z) + a_1 \sin(z)##.

On the 2nd part, I didn't do the exercise, that was the resolution from the book. Thanks for the reply, I understand now :smile:
 

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