Question About a light beam .

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of light beams, specifically whether a light beam can cover more than 300,000 km in one second and how the marks left by such a beam would appear on a surface. Participants explore the implications of superluminal velocities and the conceptual understanding of light spots.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if a light beam can cover more than 300,000 km in one second, acknowledging the significance of the speed of light as a constant.
  • Another participant argues that while superluminal velocities of light spots can occur conceptually, no individual photon travels faster than the speed of light, c.
  • An analogy involving a flashlight and a machine gun is presented to illustrate that while the spot of light or bullets can move faster than c, the individual photons or bullets do not exceed their respective speeds.
  • Participants discuss how the marks left by a light beam would appear fainter if the beam is moved quickly, as the photons would be spread out over a larger area.
  • A later reply raises the question of whether a light beam has a "rate of fire" and if it is possible to determine the number of photons traveling through space in a given time based on the beam's power output and wavelength.
  • Another participant provides a method to calculate the number of photons emitted based on the power output of the laser and the wavelength of the light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that while the concept of a light spot moving faster than c is valid, it does not imply that individual photons exceed this speed. However, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of this for the marks left by the light beam and the concept of a "rate of fire" for photons.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the relationship between the speed of light, the behavior of light spots, and the physical implications of these concepts. There are also unresolved assumptions regarding the calculations of photon emissions based on laser power and wavelength.

xchaos01
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Question! "About a light beam..."

The question is can a light beam cover more than 300,000km in 1 sec? (I do realize that there's a reason why "c" is called a constant...)

Or maybe I'm asking the wrong question.. if the light beam could leave marks on the surface it's hitting while the light beam is traveling, if the light beam starts covering more than 300,000km in a second, how would the marks on the surface look?

To better understand the setting I'm talking about, see pic:
[PLAIN]http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9719/gc0001.jpg
Confused TC is confused:confused:
 
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Superluminal velocities are not uncommon, but they're not really meaningful.

The light "spot" only has meaning in our interpretation of it. No photon has moved faster than c.

Here's a simpler scenario:
I can shine a flashlight on the moon's left limb, then flick it super fast to its right limb. The spot of light will cross the moon's face in excess of c. But the spot is only conceptual. The photons that hit the left limb have no relation to the ones that hit the right limb. And they are all only traveling at c.

Another one:
I can fire a machine gun at a target 1/2 mile to the north, then swing it around in a half second till I'm firing it at a target half mile to the south. My "spot" of bullets will have moved from north to south at 30,000fps, even though no bullet is traveling faster than the muzzle velocity of 2,200fps.


how would the marks on the surface look?
Fainter.

Just like the machine would spread its bullets out over the arc, so the laser would spread its photons. Fewer photons per unit distance = fainter light.
 
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Variations on your question come up rather frequently here. In fact, someone posted about it in the General Physics forum just yesterday!

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=425424

The spot on the screen can move faster than c because it isn't a physical object. The individual photons in the beam travel radially outwards at c, in different directions.

Note that there is no way for a person sitting on the screen at one location to use this moving spot to send a message to someone at another location on the screen, without communicating somehow to the person at the center of the arc who is holding the laser.
 


DaveC426913 said:
I can fire a machine gun at a target 1/2 mile to the north, then swing it around in a half second till I'm firing it at a target half mile to the south. My "spot" of bullets will have moved from north to south at 30,000fps, even though no bullet is traveling faster than the muzzle velocity of 2,200fps.

Yes, this analogy cleared up things for me, however does this mean that a light beam also has a "rate of fire"?

For example could we determine how many photons traveled through space in 1ms? given that we know the girth of the beam?
 


All you need to know is the power output of the laser, and the wavelength of the light that it emits.

Suppose the power output is one milliwatt. That means it emits 0.001 joule of energy per second. Suppose further that the wavelength \lambda is 600 nm. Now you can calculate the energy per photon using

E = hf = \frac{hc}{\lambda}

and use that to convert "joules per second" to "photons per second."
 

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