Question about an armonic sound wave

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    Sound Sound wave Wave
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of harmonic sound waves and their relationship to the properties of air, particularly whether air can be treated as an ideal gas in calculations involving sound speed. Participants explore the implications of using harmonic wave equations in non-ideal conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the assumption of air as an ideal gas introduces systematic error when calculating sound speed using harmonic wave equations.
  • Another participant clarifies the terminology, confirming that "armonic" was intended to mean "harmonic." They also raise the issue of whether mechanical harmonic waves can exist in non-ideal gases, citing the need for elastic collisions.
  • Some participants note that harmonic waves, in a strict sense, cannot exist due to the requirement of infinite energy, but approximations can be made in finite regions.
  • It is suggested that any real wave can be represented as a superposition of harmonic waves through Fourier integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of using harmonic wave equations in non-ideal gas conditions, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential systematic error in such assumptions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the use of harmonic wave equations and the specific conditions under which they may or may not apply to real-world scenarios involving sound in air.

Rebollex
We usually describe the sound as an armonic wave while studying it's frecuency or wavelength. My doubt is if that means that we consider the air an ideal gas, so that it can affect to the result as a sistematic error. Thanks!
 
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Rebollex said:
We usually describe the sound as an armonic wave while studying it's frecuency or wavelength. My doubt is if that means that we consider the air an ideal gas, so that it can affect to the result as a sistematic error. Thanks!
Welcome to the PF. :smile:

What's an "armonic wave"? Do you mean "harmonic"? Can you post a link to what you are asking about?
 
Yeah, sorry, I'm Spanish and I usually commit errors while typing. I meant harmonic waves
 
berkeman said:
Welcome to the PF. [emoji2]

What's an "armonic wave"? Do you mean "harmonic"? Can you post a link to what you are asking about?
But the question is if a mechanic harmonic wave in a non ideal gas can be possible. In the theory, the harmonic waves need elastic collision... The thing is because I'm doing a practice to calculate the sound's speed by analysing a stationary wave show that I change the frequency of the sound and it produces a change in the wavelength. While calculating the speed of the sound, Is it a sistematic error to use a harmonic waves' equations if the air isn't an ideal gas?
 
A harmonic wave in the strict sense is never really possible since it would need to have an infinite amount of energy to create it. Under some circumstances you can have good approximations to a harmonic plane wave in some finite region of space.
 
vanhees71 said:
A harmonic wave in the strict sense is never really possible since it would need to have an infinite amount of energy to create it. Under some circumstances you can have good approximations to a harmonic plane wave in some finite region of space.
Allright, so then assuming that the sound is a harmonic wave can be a sistematic error? Thanks very much![emoji4]
 
The point of harmonic waves is that you can describe any "real" wave as a superposition of harmonic waves in the sense of Fourier integrals.
 
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vanhees71 said:
The point of harmonic waves is that you can describe any "real" wave as a superposition of harmonic waves in the sense of Fourier integrals.
Now I got it! Thank you!
 

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