Question about Classical mechanics John R. Taylor

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of non-holonomic systems as presented in John R. Taylor's advanced text on classical mechanics. The example of a hard rubber ball rolling in a triangle illustrates that while the ball returns to its initial spatial position, its orientation changes, highlighting the non-holonomic nature of the system. A holonomic system is defined by constraints that can be expressed solely in terms of coordinates, whereas the rolling ball's motion involves constraints that incorporate derivatives and depend on angular velocity, making it non-holonomic. The key takeaway is that non-holonomic systems allow for infinitesimal changes in certain variables without a definitive relationship to others, emphasizing the path dependency of the motion.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of classical mechanics principles
  • Familiarity with the concepts of holonomic and non-holonomic systems
  • Knowledge of rigid body dynamics
  • Basic mathematical skills for interpreting constraint equations
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the differences between holonomic and non-holonomic constraints in detail
  • Explore the implications of rolling without slipping in rigid body dynamics
  • Learn about the mathematical formulation of constraints in classical mechanics
  • Investigate real-world applications of non-holonomic systems in engineering and robotics
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for physics students, educators in classical mechanics, and engineers interested in the dynamics of rigid bodies and constraint systems.

HomogenousCow
Messages
736
Reaction score
213
In Taylor's advanced text on classical mechanics, he gives an example of a non-holonomic system, I find this part very strange.
He gives the example of a hard rubber ball being rolled in a triangle on a flat surface, the point is that if you take the ball out through the triangle and back to the initial position, the orientation of the ball will be different at the end.
I don't understand why that would make the system holonomic, if we treat the ball as a rigid body it would have 6 degrees of freedom, three numbers to specify its spatial position and three numbers to specify its orientation, it seems to me that only when we ignore the extended nature of the ball does the system become non-holonomic.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Here is one explanation:

Holonomic system is one in which the constraints on the coordinates are of the form

$$
f(q_1, q_2, ...) = 0.
$$

For example, mass point bound to a sphere of radius ##r## in space has constraint

$$
x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = r^2,
$$

and locally the condition

$$
xdx + ydy + zdz = 0
$$

has to be satisfied. The point has only two free degrees of freedom; for example, x and y. If we know displacements in these, the displacement in z can be calculated from the above equation.

The ball rolling without slipping is another kind of system, because the no-slipping condition cannot be written in the above way with coordinates only; the condition says that the velocity of the contact point on the ball is zero.

The constraint equation for such system will contain also the derivatives of the coordinates ##x,y,\varphi,\vartheta,\alpha##, and the local version will contain time differential ##dt##. There is no one definite relation between these 5 coordinates and no definite constraint on their changes; what will happen to them depends also on the angular velocity of the ball.

This means that although there is a constraint on the motion, one can make infinitesimal changes in four variables ##x,y,\varphi,\vartheta##, but these still do not determine the change in ##\alpha## ; the value of the latter depends on the path chosen for the change of the former four coordinates.
 
Here is another, presumably simpler way to understand non-holonomic system:

if the system has constraint on motion which does not restrict accessible configurations, only the paths to it, it is non-holonomic. The ball can get into any state ##x,y,\vartheta,\varphi,\alpha##, but the path cannot be arbitrary since it has to be such that no-slipping condition is satisfied.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
7K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K