Question about F.Reif page 66 (thermal interaction of systems)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the thermal interaction of systems as described in F. Reif's text, particularly addressing how average energy changes in systems during thermal interactions without altering external parameters. Participants explore the implications of these interactions and the concept of ensembles in statistical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about how energy can change in a system without changes in external parameters during thermal interactions.
  • One participant explains that quantum energy levels depend on external parameters, and in purely thermal interactions, these parameters remain unchanged while the distribution of energy levels alters due to heat exchange.
  • Another participant elaborates on the concept of ensembles, suggesting that the mean energy of a system changes due to shifts in the proportion of systems at various energy levels, despite the energy levels themselves remaining the same.
  • There is a discussion about how mechanical interactions differ from thermal interactions, as mechanical interactions involve changes in external parameters that affect energy levels and Hamiltonians.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the distinction between thermal and mechanical interactions, but there remains uncertainty about the implications of these interactions on energy distribution and the role of ensembles. No consensus is reached on the understanding of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the ensemble concept and the specific conditions under which energy transfer occurs during thermal interactions. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

Yathindra
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It was described that the thermal interaction changes average energy of each system by a different amount and the external parameters do not change at all in a thermal interaction. I do not understand how energy of a system changes without a change in external parameters.
 
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Yathindra said:
It was described that the thermal interaction changes average energy of each system by a different amount and the external parameters do not change at all in a thermal interaction. I do not understand how energy of a system changes without a change in external parameters.
Can you please provide more context or a direct quote regarding this?
 
Sure, the explanation in reif proceeds as follows:
The quantum energy levels of a system Er depend on external parameters like Volume, Magnetic field, etc. Er(x1,x2,x3...) In a purely thermal interaction ( only heat is exchanged and work done is zero), these external parameters are not altered. And yet we see a change in the overall energy of the system. But, this change is due to the relative number of systems of an ensemble being on those energy levels alters. Whereas in a mechanical interaction, external parameters do change and so Er which is a function of those would obviously change.
What confuses me is the idea of an ensemble here. It looks like in some cases even though a hotter and colder system is in contact, energy transfer would not take place.!

PFA. (page 66, chapter 2)
 

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If a hotter and a colder system are brought into contact, the distribution of energy levels within each of them changes as a result of the heat transferred from the hotter system to the colder system.
 
Chestermiller said:
If a hotter and a colder system are brought into contact, the distribution of energy levels within each of them changes as a result of the heat transferred from the hotter system to the colder system.
I'm going through Reif and had the same question. This is how I understand it:

When a system ##A## with mean energy ##\bar{E}=\varepsilon## interacts (only) thermally with a system ##A^{'}## by transfering heat ##\Delta E = \varepsilon / 3##, the proportion of systems ##A## of the ensemble in various energy levels (of system ##A##) changes such that the mean energy of a system ##A## in this ensemble is ##\frac{2}{3}\varepsilon##, but the energy levels themselves are the same. Also there should be a similar shift in the proportions of systems ##A^{'}## over various energy levels (of ##A^{'}##) such that the mean energy of an ##A^{'}## in the ensemble is ##\frac{1}{3}\varepsilon##

On the other hand if these two systems interacted mechanically the energy levels of both systems would change as a result of a change in external paramaters. As I understand it , external parameters are those that appear in the Hamiltonian, which is the reason for the energy levels changing (different Hamiltonian ##=## different quantum system ##\implies## different energy eigenstates ##=## different energy levels. The proportion of systems should also shift accordingly to change the mean energies of the system in line with macroscopic thermodynamics.

Am I correct in understanding it this way?
 

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