Question about gas leak engineering units

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the engineering units used in gas leak testing standards, particularly in the context of helium leak testing for hermetically sealed electronics. Participants explore the implications of using unreduced units versus reduced forms, and the practical reasons behind these choices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that standards for gas leak specifications use unreduced units like Atmosphere-Cubic Centimeters per Second, despite the relationship to power through the Ideal Gas Law.
  • Another participant suggests that unreduced expressions are more directly usable for measuring gas flow rates and that pressure is typically known in the testing environment.
  • A third participant provides a conversion example, stating that Torr-liters per second can be related to mass flow rates, specifically for helium.
  • One participant mentions that different units may be used for convenience and clarity, drawing parallels to electrical engineering where similar quantities are expressed in distinct units to avoid confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the use of unreduced units, with no consensus reached on the necessity or advantages of this practice. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to expressing gas leak specifications.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight that the choice of units may depend on practical considerations and the context of measurements, but specific assumptions or definitions related to "standard" conditions remain unclear.

MichaelY
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I have a somewhat mundane question that I hope somebody can help me with. I am working with several standards for performing leak testing on hermetically sealed electronics packages using helium bombing. The question I have is about the engineering units used in the leak test specifications. Both the NASA Leakage Testing Handbook (NASA CR-952) and the Nondestructive Testing Handbook - Leak Testing, 3rd Edition, published by the American Society for Nondestructive Testing indicate that the units to be used for specifying a gas leak are Pressure (P) x Volume (V) / Time (t). Pressure x Volume reduces to Energy (see, for example, the Ideal Gas Law, which is an energy balance equation: PV = nRT) and Energy / Time is Work or Power. This being the case, I would expect the units for a gas leak specification to be in terms of Power (Watts or other Power units). Instead, in every standard I have seen, the units are left in their unreduced form such as Atmosphere-Cubic Centimeters per Second, Pascal-Cubic Meters per Second, or Millibar-Liters per Second. To add to the confusion, some standards employ the abbreviation STD to indicate a leak rate at some "standard", sometimes unstated, conditions. An example of this would be STD cm^3 / sec. In this case they seem to have dropped the units of Pressure since, I am assuming, the Pressure is defined as part of the standard conditions (STD). Anyway, bottom line, I am looking for an explanation as to why unreduced engineering units are universally used in gas leak standards.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
the reason might be that most measurements relate to the rate of flow of gas, such as the increase in concentration over time measured by a concentration-based sensor , or calculated from the ultrasonic sound signature of a leak, so an unreduced expression is more directly 'usable' without any calculations needed... the pressure should have already been known inside the pressurized chamber, and it is unlikely that a gas leak investigator will need to know the power output as a result of the gas leak, unless the gas is being mechanically used i.e. pneumatic system leaking leading to power loss, etc
 
Last edited:
Torr-liters per second is equivalent to mass flow per second. For example, since 22.41 liters of helium at 760 mm is 4 grams, 1 torr-liter per second of helium is 2.3 x 10-4 grams per second.
 
Just saw this post and no nothing about this topic...but, I just wanted to say that sometimes units for certain quantities are given a set of units different from their reduced form just to be able to tell them apart. Or, like carmatic says, just to have them ready for their use in a rather practical manner...easy mental operation, easy look up tables, etc.

For example...what do you get when you multiply volts and amps?

Well, I am an electrical engineer and when it comes to generators, there are 3 popular quantities that have the same fundamental units, yet, they are given 3 different units just so that we know what we talking about...

Apparent Power
Real Power
Reactive Power

they are all powers and bascially volt-amperes or (mega volt-amperes), yet, we talked about them in units of

MVA mega volt-amperes
MW mega watts
MVAR reactive MVAs

so, sometimes it is just a convenience thing and that's it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
9K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
25
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
1K