Question about ionization process

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter kelvin490
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Ionization Process
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the ionization process resulting from radioactive decay, specifically regarding the nature of ion pairs produced by particles such as alpha and beta particles. Participants explore the formation of positive ions and free electrons, as well as the potential for negative ions in various contexts, including gases and specific atomic behaviors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that "ion pairs" refer to free electrons and corresponding positive ions, while questioning the formation of negative ions from neutral molecules.
  • Others argue that neutral molecules can pick up free electrons to form negative ions due to their electron affinity, with specific examples such as alkali metals and halides provided.
  • A later reply discusses the negative hydrogen ion, describing its structure and behavior in particle accelerators, indicating that it consists of a hydrogen atom with two bound electrons.
  • One participant mentions the energy required to create an electron-ion pair in a gas, noting that it typically takes 25 to 35 eV, and discusses the role of ionization chambers in measuring these pairs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of negative ion formation, with multiple competing views on the conditions under which negative ions can form and the implications of ion pairs.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about atomic behavior and the energy thresholds for ionization, which may not be universally applicable across different gases or conditions.

kelvin490
Gold Member
Messages
227
Reaction score
3
we know that particles produced in radioactive decay process, such as alpha and belta particles, can produce "ion pairs" along their paths. Does the "ion pairs" means "positive ion and election pairs" or "positive ion and negative ion pairs" ? I am not sure whether negative ions can be produced by bombarding an alpha particle to air (or other gases) molecules?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Ionization pairs implies free-electrons and corresponding + ions. Some free electrons may be picked up by a molecule to briefly form a - ion.

Ultimately, the electrons cascade back to neutralize the + ions.
 
Astronuc said:
Ionization pairs implies free-electrons and corresponding + ions. Some free electrons may be picked up by a molecule to briefly form a - ion.

Ultimately, the electrons cascade back to neutralize the + ions.

Thanks. But why sometimes neutral molecules can pick up free electrons to form -ve ion?
 
kelvin490 said:
Thanks. But why sometimes neutral molecules can pick up free electrons to form -ve ion?
Because the molecule has some affinity for electrons. Some atoms readily give up electrons, e.g., the alkali metals like Cs, K, Na, Li, while other atoms, e.g. halides more readily accept electrons.

There are cations and anions.
 
kelvin490 said:
Thanks. But why sometimes neutral molecules can pick up free electrons to form -ve ion?
This article describes the design of a negative hydrogen ion beam source.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...cLUFct&sig=AHIEtbTVOYlzweasDlXP2W9iJ2SfJDI98g

The negative hydrogen ion is a single hydrogen atom with one proton and two bound electrons. The "second" electron is bound by about 0.75 eV (electron volts). The negative hydrogen ion is easily accelerated in particle accelerators, and one or both electrons are easily stripped off by a laser or by a thin foil.

Bob S
 
In a gas, a charged particle (alpha, beta decay or cosmic ray) can ionize the gas, producing a positive ion and a free electron. It usually takes 25 to 35 eV energy loss to create an electron-ion pair in a gas. Electrically-charged plates in ionization chambers can collect these electron pairs, creating a current proportional to the number of electron-ion pairs per second. See section on gas ionization chambers in

http://beamdocs.fnal.gov/DocDB/0010/001068/001/A%20tutorial%20on%20beam%20loss%20monitoring.pdf

Bob S
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
5K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
5K