Question about Maximum Entropy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of maximum entropy in the context of the second law of thermodynamics and its implications for energy conservation as described by the first law of thermodynamics. Participants explore the state of energy distribution at maximum entropy and question the existence and form of energy in such a state.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that maximum entropy implies thermal equilibrium, where energy is dissipated throughout the universe.
  • Another participant asserts that energy would be found everywhere once maximum entropy is achieved.
  • A subsequent participant questions the form of energy present at maximum entropy, suggesting that velocity is a possible form.
  • Another response proposes that energy would be equally distributed in all available forms to achieve maximum entropy.
  • A participant challenges the notion of energy remaining in the universe as described by Roger Penrose, who suggests that atomic structures disintegrate towards the end of the universe, questioning where energy would exist if atomic particles no longer remain intact.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and form of energy at maximum entropy, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions about energy distribution and the definitions of energy forms at maximum entropy, as well as unresolved questions regarding the implications of particle disintegration on energy conservation.

voxmagnetar
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The second law of thermodynamics predicts the end of the life of the universe being one where thermal equilibrium exists throughout the universe (maximum entropy) - essentially all energy has been dissipated. My question is if according to the first law of thermodynamics which describes the conservation of energy (stating that energy cannot be destroyed) - where exactly can the energy be found once the state of maximum entropy has occurred?
 
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voxmagnetar said:
where exactly can the energy be found once the state of maximum entropy has occurred?
Everywhere
 
In what form? All I can imagine is velocity.
 
Equally in all available forms. Otherwise entropy would not be maximized.
 
If you can name some specific examples of exactly what and where the energy is. Roger Penrose states that towards the dying end of the universe the electrons drift away from the protons, the protons themselves eventually break into pieces. My question is that this scenario that Penrose describes doesn't sound like there would be any energy left once the elementary atomic particles disintegrate. In such a scenario as described by Penrose, where exactly if not centered around atomic structures would these be any extant energy?
 

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