Question about Organic Chemistry and Physical Chemistry

[Ric-Veda]

Hi. I have a question about Organic and Physical Chemistry. I have already finished General Chemistry I and II and got decent scores on both of them (B on both of them). I am interested in taking Organic Chemistry, then Physical Chemistry afterwards. I know that both are different from General Chemistry (well, at least Organic is): Organic dealing with carbon and structures and Physical dealing with physics at a smaller scale. But I was just wondering. Does Organic Chemistry derive more from General Chemistry I or II? And for Physical Chemistry, do I need to know more from General Chemistry I or II, and how much math do I need for Physical Chemistry? I heard Physical is pretty math intensive and Organic is more memorization and understanding. But just wondering. Do you need more from General Chemistry I or II for Organic? What about Physical?

 

[Bystander]

Organic is more memorization

"Name reaction" after "name reaction" --- and, then --- more "name reactions."

Do you need more from General Chemistry I or II for Organic? What about Physical?

Since you've already taken both, doesn't matter; you might throw an Analytical course in between the Gen. and Phys., plus an introductory diff-e -q before second semester of p-chem.
p.s., welcome aboard.

 

[Ric-Veda]

"Name reaction" after "name reaction" --- and, then --- more "name reactions."
Since you've already taken both, doesn't matter; you might throw an Analytical course in between the Gen. and Phys., plus an introductory diff-e -q before second semester of p-chem.
p.s., welcome aboard.

But for Organic Chemistry, does it derive more from General Chemistry I or II? All I know is that it has to do more with Carbon and memorizing and understanding how reactions work.

I took General Chemistry I and II not long ago, but my knowledge is a bit rusty and want to review them but I don't want to re-review everything from Chem I and II. I have other classes to study for.

 

[Bystander]

does it derive more from General Chemistry I or II?

From what I took fifty years ago? "Two." Your mileage may vary.

 

[Ric-Veda]

These were the topics covered in General Chemistry I:
-Matter and Measurement
-Atoms, Molecules, Ions
-Stoichiometry
-Aqueous Reactions and Solution Stoichiometry
-Thermochemistry
-Electronic Structure of Atoms
-Periodic Properties of the Elements
-Basic Concepts of Chemical Bonding
-Molecular Geometry and Bonding Theories
-Gases

For General Chemistry II:
-Intermolecular Forces, Liquids and Solids
-Properties of Solutions
-Chemical Kinetics
-Chemical Equilibrium
-Acid-Base Equilibria
-Aqueous Equilibria
-Chemical Thermodynamics
-Electrochemistry
-Nuclear Chemistry

Any topics here that I need to know for both Organic and Physical? And about Physical, how much math is involved. Is it only Calculus needed or more?

 

[Bystander]

both Organic and Physical? And about Physical, how much math is involved. Is it only Calculus needed or more?

In principle, just calculus; in practice? Diff - eq is a life-saver. "Stoichiometry" is something you will want to drill into your brain, particularly given that you probably are used to using a calculator --- might as well start the integer arithmetic drills.

 

[Borek]

There are definitely parts in both GCh 1 and 2 that are worth of reviewing. Perhaps not all of them (you can ignore electrochemistry and nuclear chemistry, you won't often deal with gases, periodic properties and just atoms in Organic and so on), but you won't go far without kinetics, equilibrium, bonding and geometry.

 

[Ric-Veda]

In principle, just calculus; in practice? Diff - eq is a life-saver. "Stoichiometry" is something you will want to drill into your brain, particularly given that you probably are used to using a calculator --- might as well start the integer arithmetic drills.

So for Physical Chemistry, In addition to knowing Calculus and other higher up math disciplines as well as Physics, do I need to know stuff like Stoichiometry, chemical balancing, rate law, etc?

 

[Ric-Veda]

There are definitely parts in both GCh 1 and 2 that are worth of reviewing. Perhaps not all of them (you can ignore electrochemistry and nuclear chemistry, you won't often deal with gases, periodic properties and just atoms in Organic and so on), but you won't go far without kinetics, equilibrium, bonding and geometry.

I've heard from a lot of people who took Organic Chemistry in my college as well as on other forums that there is not that much General Chemistry involved in Organic and it only involves bonding, electronegativity and more on memorization and understanding how chemical reactions work than in General Chemistry where there is a lot of math involved.

 

[Bystander]

So for Physical Chemistry, In addition to knowing Calculus and other higher up math disciplines as well as Physics, do I need to know stuff like Stoichiometry, chemical balancing, rate law, etc?

Yes.

 

[Borek]

I've heard from a lot of people who took Organic Chemistry in my college as well as on other forums that there is not that much General Chemistry involved in Organic and it only involves bonding, electronegativity and more on memorization and understanding how chemical reactions work than in General Chemistry where there is a lot of math involved.

Ain't true. Well to often the outcome of the reaction depends on the subtle combination of equilibrium and kinetic factors.

That is, you can memorize the outcome, or you can try to understand the mechanism. Guess which approach is more general and gives a better understanding of what is going on.

 

[Ric-Veda]

So the topics I need to really focus on for Organic Chemistry are:
General Chemistry I: Electronic Structure of Atoms, Periodic Properties of Elements, Basic Concepts of Chemical Bonding, Molecular Geometry and Bonding Theories.
General Chemistry II: Chemical Kinetics, Chemical Equilibrium, Acid-Base Equilibria, Aqueous Equilibria, Chemical Thermodynamics

As for Physical Chemistry, it's basically "Advanced General Chemistry", but with Calculus, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations as well as Physics involved, right . But for those who already took Physical Chemistry, please tell me what it's like?

 

[Ric-Veda]

For Organic Chemistry, all I can think of is having to remember: methane, hexane, butane, propane, octane, pentane, nonane, decane, ethylene, methylene, etc, etc You also have to remember the formula and have to draw a very complicated spider web-like bonding structure . I feel like my head will explode

 

[Borek]

Electronic Structure of Atoms, Periodic Properties of Elements

Exactly things I told you you won't need.

For Organic Chemistry, all I can think of is having to remember: methane, hexane, butane, propane, octane, pentane, nonane, decane, ethylene, methylene, etc, etc

Yes, these names you have to remember, even if it is Greek to you.

You also have to remember the formula

No, you can easily find the formula if you know the length of the carbon chain.

and have to draw a very complicated spider web-like bonding structure

It is quite trivial if you understand where these bonding structures come from.

As I told you - you can memorize or try to understand why. Choice is yours.

 

[DrClaude]

Yes, these names you have to remember, even if it is Greek to you.

Was the pun intended?

 

[Borek]

 

[Bystander]

Did you pick the smiley to match your hair?

 

[Ric-Veda]

Yes, these names you have to remember, even if it is Greek to you.

Why, is Greek complicated? . It does all sound confusing and intimidating to people who are just beginning Orgo.

It is quite trivial if you understand where these bonding structures come from.

As I told you - you can memorize or try to understand why. Choice is yours.

From what I heard from others taking it, you have to be able to both memorize and understand why. There are people who just memorize without understanding anything at all. Of course, I am not one of those people

 

[Borek]

Did you pick the smiley to match your hair?

No, to match the mood

 

[Delong]

Hi. I have a question about Organic and Physical Chemistry. I have already finished General Chemistry I and II and got decent scores on both of them (B on both of them). I am interested in taking Organic Chemistry, then Physical Chemistry afterwards. I know that both are different from General Chemistry (well, at least Organic is): Organic dealing with carbon and structures and Physical dealing with physics at a smaller scale. But I was just wondering. Does Organic Chemistry derive more from General Chemistry I or II? And for Physical Chemistry, do I need to know more from General Chemistry I or II, and how much math do I need for Physical Chemistry? I heard Physical is pretty math intensive and Organic is more memorization and understanding. But just wondering. Do you need more from General Chemistry I or II for Organic? What about Physical?

I don't remember completely what I learned in Gen chem 1 or 2 but I can tell you that one thing you should get down for sure is pH pKa pKb scales and conversion and all of that. I do remember that that shows up in O-chem a ton. Otherwise I would come into O-chem with a clean sponge-like mind because you'll need it...