Question on derivation of potential of a small current loop

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the vector magnetic potential for a small current loop, specifically addressing the integral of the differential length element around the loop and its implications for the potential calculation. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification regarding vector integration in a closed loop.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the claim that the integral of the differential length element around a small loop vanishes, arguing that for a small loop, the integral should yield a non-zero value.
  • Another participant suggests that since the vector nature of the differential length element implies a closed loop, the contributions from the vector components should sum to zero, likening it to a polygon.
  • A later reply confirms that integrating the vector around a closed loop results in zero, as the sine and cosine components of the vector cancel out over the full loop.
  • One participant acknowledges that while the method discussed applies to any loop, their original question specifically pertains to a circular loop.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the integral of the differential length element, with some asserting it vanishes and others maintaining that it does not, particularly in the context of a circular loop. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these integrals.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the shape of the loop and the assumptions made regarding vector integration in closed paths. There is an acknowledgment of the specific case of circular loops versus more general shapes.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in vector calculus, electromagnetic theory, or the mathematical treatment of magnetic potentials in physics may find this discussion relevant.

yungman
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The vector magnetic potential is given
\vec A=\frac{\mu I}{4\pi}\oint\frac{e^{-j\beta R_1}}{R_1}dl'
After a few steps, the equation becomes:
\vec A=\frac{\mu I}{4\pi}e^{-j \beta R}\left[ (1+j\betaR)\oint\frac{dl'}{R_1}-j\beta\oint dl'\right]
The Book claim the second integral obviously vanishes!

I don't understand this. For a small loop, ##dl'=rd\phi##
\oint dl'=\int_0^{2\pi}rd\phi=2\pi r

That is not zero by any stretch. Can anyone explain this?

thanks
 
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hi yungman! :smile:

A is a vector, and so is dl'

(and think "polygon" :wink:)
 
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tiny-tim said:
hi yungman! :smile:

A is a vector, and so is dl'

(and think "polygon" :wink:)

Thanks for the reply

So I have to integrate the vector in a closed loop and is zero?

Thanks
 
yes, "the vector" is just a bit of the loop

add them end-to-end (as in a polygon, like a vector triangle), and they obviously make zero :smile:
 
Thanks for your help Tim. I want to verify:
\oint d\vec l'=\int_0^{2\pi}\hat \phi rd\phi=2\pi r=\int_0^{2\pi}(-\hat x \sin\phi+\hat y \cos \phi)r d\phi

Integrate sine and cosine from 0 to ##2\pi## are both zero. So the integral is zero.
 
Last edited:
(i'm ignoring the = 2πr = :wink:)

yeees :smile:

but you're assuming the loop is a circle, and my method works for any loop! o:)
 
Thanks, I understand that it works for non circle. My original question is a circle, that's why.

Thanks for your help.

Alan
 

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